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Teaching service sites..

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Teaching service sites..

Postby Zukan » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:16 am

I want to advertise my teaching service but I don't know which site to advertise on?

I want to promote my 1-2-1 tuition service: https://samplecraze.com/tuition/

Any recommendations? I know some people in the forums teach instruments etc so maybe a heads up on a decent service?
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Re: Teaching service sites..

Postby CS70 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:57 pm

Beyond SOS, GS and other audio-specific magazine websites, not sure it makes sense to advertise on individual sites and it can get costly quite quickly.

What is called "display ads" are made available on millions on websites and are driven by understanding the individual's clicking history. That's why if you look at, say, a chair online, suddenly the same chair and other furniture appears in websites that you randomly visit.

There's a gazillion providers, but also Google has for example a Display Network and I would look there first if I were to advertise - it's just a safer choice.

There's also traditional Google Ads (the ones that appear at the top of search results) but if I were to advertise tuition, I'd go for a visual ad rather than text (i.e. the display ads above).

I would also not discount a social site (i.e. Facebook) campaign, it's cheap and cheerful and it does indeed reach people who can be tempted to click and visit your website.

In any case, before pouring much money, experiment with the three types using very litte money and monitoring the results.
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Re: Teaching service sites..

Postby Mike Stranks » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:41 pm

I presume you've thought of this:

https://www.soundonsound.com/information/advertising

and had a chat to them what knows about costs etc.

Can be either/or both/and Web and Print Mag...
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Re: Teaching service sites..

Postby hobbyist » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:50 pm

Zukan wrote:I want to advertise my teaching service but I don't know which site to advertise on?

I want to promote my 1-2-1 tuition service: https://samplecraze.com/tuition/

Any recommendations? I know some people in the forums teach instruments etc so maybe a heads up on a decent service?


Who is the target audience that might want to buy this service?
Where do they group so you can reach them easily?
How many would respond to a paid ad and go to your site?
1% maybe 2%.
How many of those would later buy the product? Even fewer.
What is the cost of the ad?
How much MORE would you make from those who respond?
Would that pay for the ad?

I suspect that people wanting piano or violin lessons far outnumber those who want to know the ins and outs of the details of mixing.
And that those who do want to learn mixing are quite happy with reading books and trying things. At least for the level of ability to which they aspire or that would satisfy them.

You may do better with social media and a tagline. Prove you know your stuff by your posts and hope they visit your web site.

Your web page says nothing to support your claims about your qualifications and starts off with a statement that I disagree with. I did learn mixing from books.
Some people might prefer videos to books, but I find them inferior.
And you offer videos elsewhere that seems to be contradictory with your attempt to teach in person (including via skype etc).

And there is a lot more to mixing then just the tools and techniques you list. HOW will you integrate all the tools and their use? Will you teach a process that anyone can use to do their own mixing after the class session? A 4 hour block at 35£ would buy an awful lot of good books by top name mixers telling more than I think I would get from a personal session.

How will your 1-1 be different and BETTER than a book?


AIDA is key to selling
attention
interest
desire
action

you have to get them to come to your web site and then make then DESIRE the product. IMHO your landing page does not do that.
So any paid ad would be mostly wasted money.

Your other pages just confuse me more. What is your real focus?
Looks like you are really selling videos.

There are web sites that teach how to market online. How to get attention and interest and HOW to do the landing page to create desire. And to move them to action = buy it. Check them out before you spend money on ads.

when you do search for them, funnels is one key word of interest to use.
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Re: Teaching service sites..

Postby CS70 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:56 pm

Prove you know your stuff by your posts and hope they visit your web site.


You know , there’s this guy that made a record with Kayne. Lots of kids went ‘woah, Kayne is gonna be a big help to the career of this Paul McCartney guy”

:bouncy: :headbang:
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Re: Teaching service sites..

Postby Mike Stranks » Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:43 pm

hobbyist wrote:I suspect that people wanting piano or violin lessons far outnumber those who want to know the ins and outs of the details of mixing.

Surely, that's self-evident? But Zukan ain't selling music lessons is he?

And that those who do want to learn mixing are quite happy with reading books and trying things.

There is definite evidence within these forums that people ARE happy to pay for a bit of 1:1 from the likes of Zukan and find it to be money very well spent.
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Re: Teaching service sites..

Postby Eddy Deegan » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:29 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:There is definite evidence within these forums that people ARE happy to pay for a bit of 1:1 from the likes of Zukan and find it to be money very well spent.

Abso-flipping-lutely :thumbup:

I'm a competent (ex-professional) pianist and sythesizer guy. I've done some passable mixes, read books and improved slowly over the last 20 years to the point that when I put my mind to it I can chuck out a half decent mix.

Two days spent with Zukan working on my own material made me realise how much I don't know and can't yet do. A real eye opener, I am hotly anticipating future visits to his place and it's ridiculous how good he is at it. I've learned more in those two days than in the last 2 years. He's transformed some of my work into something I can't quite believe I'm hearing. I will be engaging his services on a regular basis going forwards also.

In discussions of this nature, I'm now reticent to accept the opinon of anyone who hasn't provided an example of their work to use as a benchmark. Talk is cheap and anyone can google a wisdom or two. Let's hear the work. Mine's in my signature, and at the time of writing it only represents my own efforts. I very much look forward to getting some of the results from spending time with Zukan online also.
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Re: Teaching service sites..

Postby S2 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:15 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:
hobbyist wrote:I suspect that people wanting piano or violin lessons far outnumber those who want to know the ins and outs of the details of mixing.

Surely, that's self-evident? But Zukan ain't selling music lessons is he?

And that those who do want to learn mixing are quite happy with reading books and trying things.

There is definite evidence within these forums that people ARE happy to pay for a bit of 1:1 from the likes of Zukan and find it to be money very well spent.

Surely, that's self-evident? But Zukan ain't selling music lessons is he?

No he isn’t. And? I’m not sure of your point? The point he’s making is that offering mixing tuition is an extremely niche market, therefore getting the marketing correct is absolutely critical.

There is definite evidence within these forums that people ARE happy to pay for a bit of 1:1 from the likes of Zukan and find it to be money very well spent.

Sure. But is it enough to represent a reasonable return? The advent of the internet over the years has meant that people go to the internet to learn about stuff rather than paying for tuition. People do kitchens, bathrooms, bricklaying, plastering, photography etc all from watching YouTube.

Hobbyist has dispassionately and non judgementally highlighted some of the issues with marketing this type of thing. I’m guessing he doesn’t know Zukan and so isn’t biased. AIDA is a valid and important marketing concept.

In an ideal world people would take lessons for stuff if they wanted to know how to do something. I had quite a few years of drum lessons when much younger to enable me to play. But people use things like Drumeo now. The younger generation are less inclined to spend on tuition since they have other priorities. Catching their attention will be crucial.

In my opinion he’s offered an extremely useful assessment.
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Re: Teaching service sites..

Postby CS70 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:47 pm

S2 wrote:
No he isn’t. And? I’m not sure of your point? The point he’s making is that offering mixing tuition is an extremely niche market, therefore getting the marketing correct is absolutely critical.

Not sure where from you get that it's "extremely niche". The consumer market for music equipment is a critical one for lots of operators. Have a look at SOS, which is undoubtedly a professional magazine, and check how many ads are directed to business vs consumer market: very, very few. Pick up a similar magazine of 30 years ago (for example the splendid one from 74 that James linked in another thread) and do the same thing, and the relationship is almost inverted.

And once they get their equipment, consumers find out they need to learn how to use it..

Besides, there's quite a good number of very successful tuition sites: take Scott's bass lessons, Justin's guitars, the "mix with the masters" series where people spend serious dosh for the privilege of physical presence.

That said, it's no doubt that getting the marketing correct is absolutely critical in anything involving selling. But that's exactly what Zukan was asking about, and re-stating it is stating the obvious. Bandwidth waste.

There is definite evidence within these forums that people ARE happy to pay for a bit of 1:1 from the likes of Zukan and find it to be money very well spent.

Sure. But is it enough to represent a reasonable return?

Well, that's the question for any business. If it were possible to answer it beforehand, everybody would be rich. It is always a matter of product, of market, of marketing and a sprinkle of good luck. Business is non-linear, and outcomes are very unpredictable. If that was an obstacle, nobody would attempt to build any.

The advent of the internet over the years has meant that people go to the internet to learn about stuff rather than paying for tuition. People do kitchens, bathrooms, bricklaying, plastering, photography etc all from watching YouTube.

...

In an ideal world people would take lessons for stuff if they wanted to know how to do something. I had quite a few years of drum lessons when much younger to enable me to play. But people use things like Drumeo now. The younger generation are less inclined to spend on tuition since they have other priorities. Catching their attention will be crucial.

Well that simply shows that you think such a business may not viable. Fair enough, for any one person starting one, there are a thousand who think that's not gonna work - and sometimes they're right, sometimes they'are not. It means nothing - other than it's your opinion. People do kitchen and plastering and houses - but as i look around I can see that kitchen sellers and contractors haven't exactly disappeared.

Again, how to best use his means to catch the market attention is what Zukan was asking about: to reply that he needs to catch the market attention is like telling someone who asks which microphone to use that he should use a microphone. No shit, Sherlock.
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Re: Teaching service sites..

Postby S2 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:18 pm

CS70 wrote:
S2 wrote:
No he isn’t. And? I’m not sure of your point? The point he’s making is that offering mixing tuition is an extremely niche market, therefore getting the marketing correct is absolutely critical.

Not sure where from you get that it's "extremely niche". The consumer market for music equipment is a critical one for lots of operators. Have a look at SOS, which is undoubtedly a professional magazine, and check how many ads are directed to business vs consumer market: very, very few. Pick up a similar magazine of 30 years ago (for example the splendid one from 74 that James linked in another thread) and do the same thing, and the relationship is almost inverted.

And once they get their equipment, consumers find out they need to learn how to use it..

Besides, there's quite a good number of very successful tuition sites: take Scott's bass lessons, Justin's guitars, the "mix with the masters" series where people spend serious dosh for the privilege of physical presence.

That said, it's no doubt that getting the marketing correct is absolutely critical in anything involving selling. But that's exactly what Zukan was asking about, and re-stating it is stating the obvious. Bandwidth waste.

There is definite evidence within these forums that people ARE happy to pay for a bit of 1:1 from the likes of Zukan and find it to be money very well spent.

Sure. But is it enough to represent a reasonable return?

Well, that's the question for any business. If it were possible to answer it beforehand, everybody would be rich. It is always a matter of product, of market, of marketing and a sprinkle of good luck. Business is non-linear, and outcomes are very unpredictable. If that was an obstacle, nobody would attempt to build any.

The advent of the internet over the years has meant that people go to the internet to learn about stuff rather than paying for tuition. People do kitchens, bathrooms, bricklaying, plastering, photography etc all from watching YouTube.

...

In an ideal world people would take lessons for stuff if they wanted to know how to do something. I had quite a few years of drum lessons when much younger to enable me to play. But people use things like Drumeo now. The younger generation are less inclined to spend on tuition since they have other priorities. Catching their attention will be crucial.

Well that simply shows that you think such a business may not viable. Fair enough, for any one person starting one, there are a thousand who think that's not gonna work - and sometimes they're right, sometimes they'are not. It means nothing - other than it's your opinion. People do kitchen and plastering and houses - but as i look around I can see that kitchen sellers and contractors haven't exactly disappeared.

Again, how to best use his means to catch the market attention is what Zukan was asking about: to reply that he needs to catch the market attention is like telling someone who asks which microphone to use that he should use a microphone. No shit, Sherlock.

I’m not quite sure how you grasped that I said I didn’t think it was viable from my post? That’s certainly not what I said at all and I certainly don’t think that. The thrust of my post was that Hobbyist had offered some extremely useful information about marketing which had been rather dismissed by the subsequent posters.

For the record I think Zukan has a very marketable skill and I hope it works. I love the idea of teaching stuff to people and I’ve considered something similar in a slightly different skill set.

Hobbyist came on and offered some critique into marketing (something that he clearly knows something about and something I’ve taken on board) and I was adding my two pence worth that I thought he had made some valid points, and then you come on with some snide comments basically rubbishing what I’ve said and what Hobbyist said.

If you don’t like it then fine, but no need to be quite so dismissive. There are ways of saying things without using four letter words or without being quite so condescending.
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Re: Teaching service sites..

Postby James Perrett » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:33 pm

If I enter "audio mixing tuition high wycombe" into Google, you are 5th on the list - but only one of the first four (Buckingham University) actually offers audio production tuition so effectively you are the second viable link on Google. The one thing I notice is that there are no ads so it would seem like a good idea to spend a few pounds a month with Google.

I'd also make sure that you had a Google Business entry - these are free and show your business on a map close to the top of a Google search. I know that I've gained work from a few customers this way who wanted someone local to record them rather than having to go up to London.
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Re: Teaching service sites..

Postby S2 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:51 pm

My two pence worth on your site. It seems to me from reading your posts on this site that your main skill (apart from your mixing skill) is your personality. Having done some teaching over the years and a PGCE, it’s a lot more about trying to sell yourself as a person rather than a huge knowledge of the subject itself (which obviously helps). It’s the personality that teaches, not subject knowledge as most people who have been through school will confirm.

You seem to come across as an interesting guy so I’d concentrate on this more as a means of selling.
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Re: Teaching service sites..

Postby Zukan » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:44 am

Thank you for all the advice.
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Re: Teaching service sites..

Postby hobbyist » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:10 pm

Zukan wrote:Thank you for all the advice.


My advice is worth every pence you paid for it.

Is what you have viable as a service?
Probably yes.

Can you lose your shirt with advertising that does not generate enough students? You bet your bippy.

Should you identify who is likely to want your service and focus on reaching them both cheaply and effectively? do'H!

Should you learn about advertising and marketing effectively before you start spending money? Yes.

There are people making a living with marketing via the internet.
Makes sense to avoid their mistakes and see what is working best before charging forth and spending a lot of money that might hurt your image and your wallet.
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Re: Teaching service sites..

Postby hobbyist » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:13 pm

James Perrett wrote:If I enter "audio mixing tuition high wycombe" into Google, you are 5th on the list - but only one of the first four (Buckingham University) actually offers audio production tuition so effectively you are the second viable link on Google. The one thing I notice is that there are no ads so it would seem like a good idea to spend a few pounds a month with Google.

I'd also make sure that you had a Google Business entry - these are free and show your business on a map close to the top of a Google search. I know that I've gained work from a few customers this way who wanted someone local to record them rather than having to go up to London.

I would research that. Google ads might work. Or you might just spend a lot of money making google rich without getting students.
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Re: Teaching service sites..

Postby hobbyist » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:44 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:
hobbyist wrote:I suspect that people wanting piano or violin lessons far outnumber those who want to know the ins and outs of the details of mixing.

Surely, that's self-evident? But Zukan ain't selling music lessons is he?

And that those who do want to learn mixing are quite happy with reading books and trying things.

There is definite evidence within these forums that people ARE happy to pay for a bit of 1:1 from the likes of Zukan and find it to be money very well spent.



Zukan is selling something to a very small market. VERY small.

Finding them is going to be hard when you cant afford to throw money all over to advertise to catch one here and one there.

People learn 4 main ways. Reading, seeing it done, doing it, and hearing it. Combinations help too and help more people.


Except for the minority that prefers a tutor, most would rather start with books which are a lot cheaper so they can make notes and review easily, then possibly to use videos, which are slower but do show things books cant, some then just DIY and learn by their mistakes.

class teachers are in the middle combining seeing hearing and doing and sometimes showing; a tutor closer to the user that prefers hands on and seeing.

And the demand for tutors teaching mixing is a VERY small market.
Music itself is only 15% the size of video in any media, and computer games. What % of music has people wanting to learn mixing? And how many of them want a tutor to do it?

I stand by my advice in my first post.
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Re: Teaching service sites..

Postby Zukan » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:02 am

TBH, the people that book me are not all complete beginners but rather people who want to take their mixing skills to the next level. I have 2 students that are beginners and they are happy to pay for extended courses which I provide. My last 3 students are now signed to labels and writing and producing their own content and the beginner students I have now have come from referrals.

I believe the teaching market is still a viable one and all I am really after is where to advertise my services rather than to have my business analysed - which was done to death in another thread.

I appreciate all the advice here and will look into your recommendations closely. Thank you.
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Re: Teaching service sites..

Postby blinddrew » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:57 pm

Given that, I wonder if you've looked at partnering with any music schools or studios?
At the least they would be potential places to advertise.
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Teaching service sites? Use Readers Ads

Postby Forum Admin » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:11 pm

Zukan wrote:I want to advertise my teaching service but I don't know which site to advertise on?

Eddie, don't forget SOS provides a FREE space for anyone to advertise in... it's called Readers' Ads and in there is a category called SERVICES where some tutors post ads every now and then. There's a guy from Minnesota advertising in there currently:

https://www.soundonsound.com/readersads/services

It's free, so why not make use of it? Ads get deleted automagically after 30 days but you could easily keep a copy of your text and re-post it. Latest ads show on the main Readers' Ads page but also in their category page.

Ads are vetted and go into a queue... but I think you know who vets them so no problemo on that front. ;)

Submit your ad today here: https://www.soundonsound.com/readersads/free

It might bring in some punters, it might not, but it's free and on a regularly visited part of the site. What have you got to lose?

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Re: Teaching service sites..

Postby Dynamic Mike » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:53 am

Just a small point but 'Samplecraze' sounds like a site that sells samples or loops. If that's pretty much the first (or only) thing people read in a small advert or hyperlink it might mislead people who just give it a cursory glance. I don't use or edit samples, so you just lost my interest & I won't investigate further.

Once you get to the site it's really clear & obvious what you're about, I just don't think the name really sells it for you. It's not a problem for people who know you & previous customers but I wonder whether it might be off-putting when it comes to generating new traffic.
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