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Gender bias/discrimination in music

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Re: Gender bias/discrimination in music

Postby Arpangel » Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:45 am

awjoe wrote:
merlyn wrote:
My experience of music is that it is male dominated. There's no bias or discrimination on my part because I don't have the choice between a man and a woman.

I think music would be healthier if there were more women involved.

Healthier? How so? How is it not healthy now? (I'm not challenging what you say, I'm just wondering.)

Women are women, and sometimes, they have a different perspective, or way of approaching things, creatively. I think that’s what could be called "healthier" if that’s the right word, or maybe, just refreshing.
Some women I’ve worked with were technically amazing, just like anyone, male or female, but I’ve been in a lot of circumstances where complicated equipment was being used intuitively, and no inherent interest was shown for the equipment itself, but great results were achieved. I’ve got to be careful what I say, and I’m in no way generalising, but this "intuitive" way of working tends to be more apparent in females "in my experience" that’s not to say that they are in any way less knowledgable about things, it’s just the fact of it being a different way of approaching the creative process, it’s less academic, less formal, not based on received knowledge, or the idea that there is a right or wrong way.
I know this is a cross-gender thing also, but, it does seem more common in women, that’s all I’m saying.
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Re: Gender bias/discrimination in music

Postby blinddrew » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:27 am

Equal does not necessarily mean the same. :)
Outside of music there is a huge body of evidence that shows having a diverse workforce (not just gender, race, education, background, country of birth etc) delivers improved financial performance.
If you can get that diversity up to board/exec level then that advantage increases.
Which is why it's a bit depressing that if you're a FTSE100 CEO there's more chance of you being called Dave or Chris than there is of you being a woman.
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Re: Gender bias/discrimination in music

Postby Tim Gillett » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:26 pm

blinddrew wrote:Equal does not necessarily mean the same. :)
Outside of music there is a huge body of evidence that shows having a diverse workforce (not just gender, race, education, background, country of birth etc) delivers improved financial performance.
If you can get that diversity up to board/exec level then that advantage increases.
Which is why it's a bit depressing that if you're a FTSE100 CEO there's more chance of you being called Dave or Chris than there is of you being a woman.

As so often, there is another side and a bigger picture.
A recent example of a corporation's "tolerance" of diversity of viewpoint in operation.

"The Google Memo: Four Scientists Respond" Lee Jussim, David P. Schmitt, Geoffrey Miller, Debra Soh.

https://quillette.com/2017/08/07/google ... s-respond/
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Re: Gender bias/discrimination in music

Postby merlyn » Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:50 pm

awjoe wrote:Healthier? How so? How is it not healthy now? (I'm not challenging what you say, I'm just wondering.)
At the top the X Factor and Gangsta Rap are examples of unhealthiness. Young people watching the X Factor get the idea that music is about melismatic warbling over a backing track, and music is something available at the push of a button. Music becomes like sport delimited within boundaries defined by a musically clueless businessman. Anything challenging or thought provoking is ironed out turning music into a predictable product, safe for distribution because it doesn't rock the neo-liberal consumer capitalist boat.

Some anecdotal evidence that women might approach this differently is Emile Sande's Street Symphony which includes the entertainment value of the soap opera element but has a spirit of co-operation and collaboration.

At the grassroots level all male bands often play too loud IMHO. Marshall stacks in a small pub where a 30W amp would be overkill. I've been in bands where volume wars was a problem and the music suffers.
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Re: Gender bias/discrimination in music

Postby tobin. » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:06 am

Well this is a massively interesting topic and here are my 2c
M 20y not that it matters but still.

I've done some casual live mixing for the church I go too with a healthy youth of 40 14-18 y olds which are probably 60-40 women to men.

Our bands are pretty much guitars are guys drummers are guys, piano is 50 - 50 and vocalists are like 90 to 10 girls or maybe 80 to 20. Granted this is a really small setting.

I for one only do the mixing and it comes up quite often that hey we should get some girls mixing (there is like 4 of us guys that can mix of the fly) the issue is that from what I have found or noticed casualty is that girls and primarily peers my age hardly ever express the interest they have. I don't really know why because when we ask wether anyone wants to learn to mix we expressly ask girls as well.

Idk it's a bit hard to say it what the significance is or if there is any but in my social sphere guys get into music by instruments and then may start singing usually, and most don't sing. For girls it's the other way around, they learn to sing and then pick up instruments that accompany that.

Maybe that has a part to play that girls gravitate to instruments that can accompany singing?? Idk
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Re: Gender bias/discrimination in music

Postby tobin. » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:10 am

Test and can this be edited?
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Re: Gender bias/discrimination in music

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:35 am

tobin. wrote:Test and can this be edited?

Welcome to the SOS forums, Tobin.

As a new member, your first three posts are held in a moderating queue and have to be reviewed and approved by one of the (volunteer) moderating team before they are published on the site. This is part of our very effective anti-spammer system, but it inevitably results in delays between you hitting submit and the post appearing in the forums.

The delay basically depends on how soon a moderator can check the queue, and can vary from a few seconds to a few hours, depending on the time of day and who happens to be around on the forum at the time.

After three approved posts, all further posts are published directly and immediately.

As for editing, you can edit your own post as much as you like up to 45 minutes after posting. After that time period posts are locked -- the idea being to avoid confusion if others have responded and/or quoted your post.

If you would like a post to be edited (or removed) after that time period, please flag up the post using the ! (report) button, and explain your requirements, and a moderator will deal with it.

H
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Re: Gender bias/discrimination in music

Postby OTE2020 » Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:00 am

Arpangel wrote:
awjoe wrote:
merlyn wrote:
My experience of music is that it is male dominated. There's no bias or discrimination on my part because I don't have the choice between a man and a woman.

I think music would be healthier if there were more women involved.

Healthier? How so? How is it not healthy now? (I'm not challenging what you say, I'm just wondering.)

Women are women, and sometimes, they have a different perspective, or way of approaching things, creatively. I think that’s what could be called "healthier" if that’s the right word, or maybe, just refreshing.
Some women I’ve worked with were technically amazing, just like anyone, male or female, but I’ve been in a lot of circumstances where complicated equipment was being used intuitively, and no inherent interest was shown for the equipment itself, but great results were achieved. I’ve got to be careful what I say, and I’m in no way generalising, but this "intuitive" way of working tends to be more apparent in females "in my experience" that’s not to say that they are in any way less knowledgable about things, it’s just the fact of it being a different way of approaching the creative process, it’s less academic, less formal, not based on received knowledge, or the idea that there is a right or wrong way.
I know this is a cross-gender thing also, but, it does seem more common in women, that’s all I’m saying.

i'am staying out off this one... mr wife would kill me ;) :round1:
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Re: Gender bias/discrimination in music

Postby blinddrew » Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:41 am

Have to ask, typo or irony?
:D
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Re: Gender bias/discrimination in music

Postby Sam Spoons » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:34 am

I went to see "Believe - The Cher Songbook" last night*. Very professional show, slightly lacking in a couple of areas but nothing to do with the band. The sound was good, musicianship excellent and 'Cher' had a great voice.

The 'regular' band is an 8 piece (they had a dep keys player last night), 'Cher', 'Sonny/Meat/Bvox, two guitarists, bass drums, keys and sax/flute/percussion/bvox. The relevance here is that four of the band are female (bass, Keys, sax (etc.) and, obviously, 'Cher').

* Liverpool Empire, probably about half full so 1000+ seats sold. You might have guessed it's not something I would go to without an ulterior motive :smirk: My nephew, 'Charles Michael Duke' to give him his stage name, is a backing singer and plays the Sonny and Meat Loaf characters (quite a trick for a skinny, 5' 7", 7 ½ stone youngster).
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