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Genesis Reunion

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Re: Genesis Reunion

Postby The Elf » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:28 pm

I don’t begrudge them taking whatever money they can get, but it won’t be mine. Good luck to them.
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Re: Genesis Reunion

Postby blinddrew » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:54 pm

MarkOne wrote:Has the cost of staging big arena shows really spiralled up so much in the last 20 years?
Show expectations have changed (lots of people now expect a 'show' not just a 'gig') which does raise prices, but there's also been a fundamental change in the economics of recording and touring music.
Historically you made your profit from the recorded music (record and cds) and the tour was a break-even activity to promote the record.
Now it's pretty much the other way round, the recorded music serves as promo material for the tour, which therefore has to be the income generator. This is now the economic scarcity to monetised. So this means ticket prices go up. And they'll go up to the point that the market can bear. Which is staggeringly high for the big names and staggering low for anyone starting out.
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Re: Genesis Reunion

Postby CS70 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:08 pm

themarqueeyears wrote:
CS70 wrote: .... but I found sad to hear he couldn't play drums anymore... and quite happy now that he can again.

The poor chap can't even walk without a stick let alone play drums!

Phil's only agreed to the tour on the basis his 19 year old son Nick plays drums on the tour!

Oh didn't know, I had assumed he was back in the seat. Pity!
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Re: Genesis Reunion

Postby Scramble » Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:22 am

>The thing I find with these 70s tracks (same feel I have with Led Zeppelin, for example) is that the lyrics don't really do anything for me. It feels like someone's just writing down the first thing that comes to his mind and sort of rhymed - they manage to feel a bit pompous, like they want to convey some sort of real substance but in the end they don't manage.

That's not true of Genesis's 70s lyrics at all. You may not like their lyrics, and that's fine, they're not for everyone, but they put a lot of work into them, and they do mean something, with themes from classical mythology, literature, all sorts of things.

Perhaps that's not what you want from rock lyrics, which is fair enough, but they're not like Jon Anderson from Yes who did often just write meaningless stuff because the words sounded good.
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Re: Genesis Reunion

Postby Watchmaker » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:07 am

Genesis was formative for me. I started playing drums because Phil Collins was such an incredible drummer. No one, not even Chester Thompson can play like he did.

I used to get the Genesis newsletter mailed to me from somewhere in England, all the way in Los Alamos, NM back in 1974 and once mail ordered a t-shirt that took so long to arrive that I'd outgrown it before I wore it. And I wore it anyway.

Until Duke. Then I lost interest because they had. But it always seemed to me that no-one ever really liked them, not when they were great - Lamb Lies Down is a complete masterwork. Once they got huge (why? so lackluster, so common as to be trite), they were washed out jeans. An ice cream cone that fell in the dirt. I wish them all the best, even if their best is behind them. In fact, I'm gonna go listen to Nursery Crime right now and forget all about the retirement tour. ta.
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Re: Genesis Reunion

Postby Wonks » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:39 pm

For those who prefer the older stuff, this 1976 concert film has just appeared on YouTube. Don't know how long it will stay up, but enjoy it whilst you can!

https://youtu.be/vrK2WwHwmHY
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Re: Genesis Reunion

Postby CS70 » Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:59 pm

Scramble wrote:That's not true of Genesis's 70s lyrics at all. You may not like their lyrics, and that's fine, they're not for everyone, but they put a lot of work into them, and they do mean something, with themes from classical mythology, literature, all sorts of things.

Well it was of the ones I'd specifically listened to the other day (dont remember the title and I'm too lazy to go see). Obviously it's a generalization so some lyrics surely are good (and not all 70s are affected, of course, say the Eagles have on average great lyrics - stuff that people remembers after hearing once), but even Stairway... c'mon - it's made to rhyme and it has the occasional flash of brilliance in doing so. Anyone who's written lyrics knows that feel and the difference.

We all know Stairway's lyrics because the whole production is great, voices and players are amazing, and the sheer musical simplicity of the song is pushing the right buttons in most people (and that, to clarify, is a compliment!)... and because we've heard 'em a gazillon times. But I still remember the first time I did, it was like - "what the heck is this? It makes no sense". Because it doesn't. It's mostly Robert getting out something that sounds good over the music without much attention to meaning. It's something we all have done.

That doesn't mean that you can't be evocative (and Stairway surely is) by both means on individual short scenes and - as again any lyricist/poet knows by experience - by the sheer sound of words, which in itself requires work and attention (and more often than not, intuition.. it's a classic way demos are often made, by mumbling something nonsensical over the music, which has the feel and attitude that you want to convey).

But the best, from Dante to Catullo (to Dylan, Simon and a bunch of others) can do it all more often than others - rhyming, rhyming schemes, word sounds, flow when singing but also a clear, understandable and purposeful meaning. It's damn hard tough.
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Re: Genesis Reunion

Postby Martin Walker » Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:57 pm

Wonks wrote:For those who prefer the older stuff, this 1976 concert film has just appeared on YouTube. Don't know how long it will stay up, but enjoy it whilst you can!

https://youtu.be/vrK2WwHwmHY

Thanks for this link Wonks - it's a revelation hearing Bill Bruford on drums with Genesis while Phil Collins is out front on vocals 8-)


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Re: Genesis Reunion

Postby IAA » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:29 pm

I really liked Bill’s playing on this and his other projects, although it never worked out for him in Genesis. Couldn’t see him drumming to Mama :tongue: !!
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Re: Genesis Reunion

Postby Folderol » Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:57 pm

Thanks for this trip down memory lane. Makes a lovely diversion from today's worries.
Bill really was enjoying himself here, wasn't he :thumbup:
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Re: Genesis Reunion

Postby blinddrew » Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:56 pm

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Re: Genesis Reunion

Postby Scramble » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:53 am

CS70 wrote:Well it was of the ones I'd specifically listened to the other day (dont remember the title and I'm too lazy to go see). Obviously it's a generalization so some lyrics surely are good (and not all 70s are affected, of course, say the Eagles have on average great lyrics - stuff that people remembers after hearing once), but even Stairway... c'mon - it's made to rhyme and it has the occasional flash of brilliance in doing so. Anyone who's written lyrics knows that feel and the difference.

We all know Stairway's lyrics because the whole production is great, voices and players are amazing, and the sheer musical simplicity of the song is pushing the right buttons in most people (and that, to clarify, is a compliment!)... and because we've heard 'em a gazillon times. But I still remember the first time I did, it was like - "what the heck is this? It makes no sense". Because it doesn't. It's mostly Robert getting out something that sounds good over the music without much attention to meaning. It's something we all have done.

I agree about Stairway but my point about Genesis still stands.
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Re: Genesis Reunion

Postby The Elf » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:28 am

Scramble wrote:I agree about Stairway but my point about Genesis still stands.
+1

I can't think of a Genesis lyric that doesn't tell a cohesive story. Some tell the story of a whole book ('White Mountain'), others the story of social hardship ('Get 'em Out by Friday'), and some have epically cringe-worthy lyrics (I'm looking at you, 'Lamb!), but no Genesis song has lyrics that are just melody and sound in the way of Yes.

Genesis could be accused of many things, and prog isn't for everyone, but meaningless lyrics really isn't one of them.
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