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Do you really NEED YouTube to promote your music?

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Do you really NEED YouTube to promote your music?

Postby Petros_K » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:43 pm

I'm reading article after article about how when it comes to using Youtube to promote your music it's an indispensable platform that you'd be a fool to not take advantage of. One article I read claims there's no reason NOT to put your music out there on Youtube for the sake of more exposure and potential followers. And when it comes to worrying about some source (whether private or corporate) accessing Youtube and then stealing either your songs or ideas, the advice was simply: Nobody's going to steal your song! That's fairly ignorant, though it is unlikely that most Youtube users have material worth stealing.

What got me doubting Youtube recently was that I see their Terms of Service are changing as of March 31, 2020. These changes include their use of your intellectual property (i.e., songs and videos). The changes outlined include one under the heading "License" saying if you upload content to their servers they can "reproduce" it, "modify and create derivative works based on your content," and also sub-license these rights to "contractors who’ve signed agreements with us" [Google, who owns Youtube]. So, Google can even give your content to third parties to use as if they have the same rights as Google. That language has me concerned that Google reps can see a song, understand its potential to become real popular, and then move to even find an artist under their corporate hire, redo the song as they see fit, and then monetize as they please --much like a record label would do, but only in this case having used their services indemnifies them because they don't owe you a dime. The license you grant to Youtube for having used their platform states: "This license you grant is royalty-free, which means there are no fees for this license."

Google Terms of Service changes: https://policies.google.com/terms/updat ... ign=tosrow

So, up front even though Google tries to make it clear that you still own the rights to your work (i.e., intellectual property), it looks to me that they're also saying given you use their services they can still do whatever they want with it, and they can do so royalty-free.

I know of at least one story in which someone uploaded original content, and a group that was in another country copyrighted the material, put a video out there, and then filed a complaint against the person who was the original creator --and not only did Youtube take his content down, but they made it clear to him that they're not involved in third party disputes. He claims he now has a lawyer, but I doubt very much Youtube will be held responsible for anything.

Then, as someone who has a channel, if you receive a complaint of the type that involves a copyright infringement, you then get a strike against you. Three strikes and your channel is taken down. Since Youtube apparently doesn't even require proof that you are the copyright holder of the work you upload, it looks to me that just about anybody can file a complaint as being the creator and copyright holder of your work. When you complain to Youtube they'll simply say, "Got a problem with it? We don't get involved in third party disputes."

I don't know what anybody thinks about this, given everyone seems so much more interested in finding ways of spreading your music as with Youtube exposure, but I think most people are minimizing the potential for problems if, as a songwriter, you use Youtube to promote your work --especially given what the changes in their Terms of Service seem to say you agree to by using their services.
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Re: Do you really NEED YouTube to promote your music?

Postby blinddrew » Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:55 am

I think you're worrying unnecessarily there. The ability for Google (and or it's sub-licencees) to use your content is strictly for the purposes covered in the section below. You're not transferring your rights, you granting them a licence. If they don't abide by those rules then you can take legal action against them as you would any other licencee.

As to the whole 'not getting involved' thing, it sucks when you're on the wrong end of it for sure, but think how much content is uploaded every minute to youtube. If Google was to get involved in every challenge between users they'd probably need to hire every lawyer in the world. And ultimately, it isn't their problem. If someone is breaking the law then your beef is with them, liability should remain with the actual rule breaker. Otherwise there'd be no point in Section 230 and services like this just wouldn't exist.
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Re: Do you really NEED YouTube to promote your music?

Postby The Red Bladder » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:07 am

Dear OP, stop living in a dream world and try landing on Planet Earth!

YT conditions are pretty generous - try selling a TV programme and see what a hard deal really looks like nowadays!

People bitching and complaining about YT are invariably those who hardly get any views or only put something up there once every few months. If you put up one 15-minute video every week and it gets 100,000 full-view equivalents (i.e. all the way to the end) you should be making at least $500 per video. If you can leverage that by selling something whilst you are up there or by encouraging your followers to click a few ads, then you can multiply that figure.

I know a few people that live very comfortable lives by making how-to videos or car reviews on YT.

As for your music - if you don't happen to be Adelle, nobody will care much about your music (or mine or anybody else's come to that!) If you can get 10,000 views you are doing well as an unknown 'artist'.

But at least somebody has seen you and then maybe, just maybe they will come to your gigs - and today's music game is only about live performances.

That is what YT is there for - to advertise something! If you put a really sexy video of your band on YT, that is good adverting!

Thought for today - if I don't find you on YT, where the hell-else am I going to find you?
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Re: Do you really NEED YouTube to promote your music?

Postby CS70 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:33 am

The Red Bladder wrote:That is what YT is there for - to advertise something! If you put a really sexy video of your band on YT, that is good adverting!

Agreed - it's free advertising. Okay, low likelihood of large exposure, but so is poster on the local pub. :)

Thought for today - if I don't find you on YT, where the hell-else am I going to find you?

There's other worthwhile outlets, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok recently. One certainly does not exclude another and all can be useful.
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Re: Do you really NEED YouTube to promote your music?

Postby OneWorld » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:12 pm

CS70 wrote:
The Red Bladder wrote:That is what YT is there for - to advertise something! If you put a really sexy video of your band on YT, that is good adverting!

Agreed - it's free advertising. Okay, low likelihood of large exposure, but so is poster on the local pub. :)

Thought for today - if I don't find you on YT, where the hell-else am I going to find you?

There's other worthwhile outlets, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok recently. One certainly does not exclude another and all can be useful.


I get the feeling time's up for TikTok. It's Chinese software and FB will do it's level best to trash it, same way as Apple is dealing with Huwei
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Re: Do you really NEED YouTube to promote your music?

Postby blinddrew » Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:38 pm

I'm not convinced FB really understands TikTok. The actions and leaks from them so far certainly indicate they've not really cottoned on. They may in time, but that might be too late.
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Re: Do you really NEED YouTube to promote your music?

Postby CS70 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:21 pm

blinddrew wrote:I'm not convinced FB really understands TikTok. The actions and leaks from them so far certainly indicate they've not really cottoned on. They may in time, but that might be too late.

Well, I for one don't understand Tik Tok. :bouncy:
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Re: Do you really NEED YouTube to promote your music?

Postby RichEnigma » Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:52 pm

Petros_K wrote:One article I read claims there's no reason NOT to put your music out there on Youtube for the sake of more exposure and potential followers. And when it comes to worrying about some source (whether private or corporate) accessing Youtube and then stealing either your songs or ideas, the advice was simply: Nobody's going to steal your song! That's fairly ignorant, though it is unlikely that most Youtube users have material worth stealing.

Hi,

YouTube is a strong platform.

Music videos used to be a straight loss and expense for labels and musicians, with no royalties paid.

YouTube, while being bashed by labels like Universal Music and some of their shills, is the platform that turned expense videos into profit centers...

YouTube is also helpful in SEO, not to mention it's such a widely used platform...

It's also still a good advertising platform, as places like Facebook are becoming a bit saturated and bloated...

Video is also still a burgeoning area in general. Homo-sapiens generally like video and it is trending and hot, so to speak...

Therefore other than in specific instances based on strategy, you are only missing the boat if you don't use it...

That being said, it is the easiest platform to steal from...

And people steal from it all the time!

BUT, it's not enough reason not to use it...

If you don't think people steal from YouTube just Google YouTube to MP3...

I don't see this changing...

The real secret is understanding that there is no magic bullet or big red button you can push to have a mass of money roll in...

Anything, and I mean anything, needs to be hammer promoted and marketed to have any freaking chance...

If not than why do Universal Music and people like Swift and Germanato spend such massively gargantuan amounts of money and time and favors to get their product out there???

Some of their signed persons will go so far in debt or use so much dirty money, just to pay for more promo and marketing and advertising or even sadly spins to boost newly released videos...

So if they are such stars and the labels have all the connections, why on Earth do they need to spend so much money and time marketing and marketing and marketing their stuff??

Surely those label stars should be able to fart a song and watch the fame, money and fans just waterfall in, surely...


But, YouTube is easy enough to get people to...

Heck if you are smart it is much easier and faster to rank Videos on YouTube than Pages or Keywords on the search engines.

So definitely use YouTube and please stop buying some lame piracy War that screws people into inaction over songs that are a tiny wee drop in the Ocean anyways...

You and I don't have the lobbying power to take the hard PR stance Universal Music might, while they shake Government hands and sign tech deals and use tech all the time for profit and promo ultimately Piracy is truly a Political issue and not for the small player to worry about...

Let's not forget access and streaming has now made Vivendi a near mountain of money...

So get it out, use YouTube for sure, and market it and keep it going, there's no other way, even Universal and Vivendi do this, every day, and hard and fast and aggressive and loud and just all the freaking time...
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Re: Do you really NEED YouTube to promote your music?

Postby blinddrew » Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:05 pm

I think that's because we're about 25 years outside their target market! :mrgreen:
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Re: Do you really NEED YouTube to promote your music?

Postby James Perrett » Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:51 pm

RichEnigma wrote:If you don't think people steal from YouTube just Google YouTube to MP3...

If you can hear it you can steal it - the record labels tried Copycode and all kinds of other schemes to stop home taping but nothing has ever worked.
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Re: Do you really NEED YouTube to promote your music?

Postby blinddrew » Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:06 am

RichEnigma wrote:If you don't think people steal from YouTube just Google YouTube to MP3...
Just like i used to sit with my finger over the record button when the top 40 countdown was on the radio. :)
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Re: Do you really NEED YouTube to promote your music?

Postby RichEnigma » Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:29 pm

blinddrew wrote:
RichEnigma wrote:If you don't think people steal from YouTube just Google YouTube to MP3...
Just like i used to sit with my finger over the record button when the top 40 countdown was on the radio. :)

jamesperret wrote: by James Perrett » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:51 pm


If you can hear it you can steal it - the record labels tried Copycode and all kinds of other schemes to stop home taping but nothing has ever worked.

For sure, but usually with some quality loss...

Youtube to MP3 has zero quality loss, other than it's an MP3...

I'm fairly certain there is no money paid to anyone when someone uses youtube to mp3...

And without the recorded medium like tapes or CD's, where are the labels going to try and get their tax from? Because you know nobody else will be paid it...

With CD's they got their levy, with digital conversions of 1s and 0s that takes no time and storage that is essentially free and reproduction that is zero marginal cost who's going to pay??

I'm guessing they want YouTube to pay some kind of levy or tax, but get caught in a dicey game and dance, as Tech and Google have gargantuan amounts of Lobbying money and huge influence...

The labels saving grace is the politicians desperation for Victory and constant desperate desire to use celebrities, stars, frauds, shills and false prophets for votes...

Often times freely perpetuating the name and likeness of criminals and drug dealers... Darn near Mexico or Columbia these days!!!

Anyways this desperation from the Politicians for votes to win so they can get fame, power, and paid large salaries and benefits, gives labels and their signed persons substantial influence, they just lack any chance to compete with Google...

Nowadays the piracy is jurisdictional and Political... Once something goes Political best to stay away unless you are the biggest of the biggest and richest of the richest...
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Re: Do you really NEED YouTube to promote your music?

Postby Petros_K » Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:10 pm

I appreciate the comments.

Consider the following:

1. Uploading content that contains an original song to Youtube you are granting Google the license to "modify and create derivative works based on your content, *such as reformatting or translating it."
(*Note the "such as" language does not restrict Google for only those two mentioned purposes. In the legal world specific language makes an important difference, and these are changes to Google's terms of service.)

2. A person remains the copyright holder of their song but still grants the above license for the content that includes the song (Google's terms state, "Your content remains yours, which means that you retain any intellectual property rights that you have in your content.")

3. From CD Baby's website: "A 'derivative work' is any song that takes a pre-existing work and uses that material to create a new composition." This includes "song arrangements that change lyrics, abridge the music, or make other significant alterations to the original composition." https://support.cdbaby.com/hc/en-us/art ... ive-works-

By sending your content to Youtube you agree to #1 which gives Google the right to do #3. You still retain copyright as per #2 but still grant Google the right to do #3.


Where's the flaw in my logic?

.
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Re: Do you really NEED YouTube to promote your music?

Postby The Red Bladder » Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:32 pm

Petros_K wrote:Consider the following:
Now I would like you to consider the following -

I am busy. Yes, despite all this lockdown business, I am busy. At the moment I am using what little time I have, saving money by seeing if I can find up-and-coming unknown funky musical artists, rather than commissioning stuff for a coming film project.

I look on YouTube - where BTW I also find actors' audition tapes and other useful material. I need to see if the artist has mastered both audio and the visual side of things.

I am not a member of any of those other social media sites and music download sites. I need to see people that are actively promoting themselves and are hungry to get on - acts that are putting themselves out there.

Petros_K wrote:Where's the flaw in my logic?

The flaw is that you have to reach out to the customer. You need them. They do not need you!
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Re: Do you really NEED YouTube to promote your music?

Postby CS70 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:41 pm

Petros_K wrote:Where's the flaw in my logic?
.

It's in thinking that it's particularly important.

First, what makes money nowadays are live shows, not recording. No matter how wrong that is (and I personally thing it's very wrong), so long there's no serious political will to protect producers and makers, the economic value of any recording is very small, if not zero. A recording has become another promotional tool, to attract attention for live concerts (and, if you're the sleazy sort, placements and even personal endorsements of products). Seen that way, what you get from YT, Facebook and whatever (and even from people copying your stuff) is almost-free marketing. Yes, they might want to use a little of your stuff someplace - and you would be really ,really hoping that they do, because it would be even more free marketing! "Free" as in, you don't use cash.

Second, let's assume you become very popular and your streams and gig attendance skyrocket and you fill a couple stadiums a week on tour. Let's also imagine that for some reason you get in serious conflict with YT - which is unlikely, because everybody is looking to make a dime, and conflicts often prevent that. But let's say you are very principled and you do, and now you have the brand value that allows you to act on your principle, and the cash which is among the consequences.. you can now hire a legal team that may challenge these clauses.

And since the way YT handles derivative work and copyright is, well, questionable and in a gray area, they're not so keen to have someone with the will and the means to come and shake things up. So you'll soon see a settlement.

It's really no big deal: first get famous and rich, then you worry about YT if you must..
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