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Impact of C-virus on music business - musos, venues, and supporting folks

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Re: Impact of C-virus on music business - musos, venues, and supporting folks

Postby blinddrew » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:19 pm

IAA wrote:My son (an Acute respiratory charge nurse at the sharpest of ends) says they have had no problems with PPE supply. It is not the same universally across the NHS For sure, but it is not the case the NHS is totally unprepared. I’ve never seen such an NHS reconfiguration on the scale of what’s happening now.
There are a huge number of people working crazily hard right now to try and get on top of things, in healthcare and other areas (I bet there are very few people in the Treasury not working this weekend).
One of the major concerns in Disaster Recovery / Business Continuity (DR/BC) teams everywhere will be about burn out.
I was on our company's DR/BC team until about 3 months ago and none of the modelling, scenario planning or gaming sessions we went through looked at something with this level of duration. We looked at things like cyber-hacking, norovirus outbreaks at our office sites, terrorist activity etc. All of them required a massive step up in effort, but over a much more finite time frame.
The only thing we looked at with a similar kind of duration was a last-minute-no-deal-brexit, and while this raised a lot of the same longer-term financial concerns, the immediate impact on our health service wasn't nearly as severe.
Anyway, what I'm getting at is that organisations are going to have to start factoring in a rolling handover for the DR/BC teams as current workloads are unsustainable.

Then factor this up by about 10 for healthcare workers. :(

[EDIT] And please pass on our collective thanks and gratitude to your son and all his colleagues.
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Re: Impact of C-virus on music business - musos, venues, and supporting folks

Postby Watchmaker » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:31 pm

Humans have never been well prepared for life on a planet, though animal husbandry and permanent settlement gave rise to the evolution of many of our most feared diseases...so in a way, this is a crisis of our own making. Combined with over-breeding, we as a species are ripe for the harvest again. Prediction: many new babies in January.

It is possible that entire populations of humans went into the abyss silently without news casters bewailing the weakness in their infrastructure, or clutching the pearls of exalted wisdom carefully displayed by crotchety old men. In fact we can merely glance at the history of the European colonization of the Americas for many examples of the risks faced by an unprepared population against novel pathogens.

We here in the golden age of the pinnacle achievement of humanity (/snark), have mass communication, scads of trained medics (even if many of the fundamental assumptions are reductive), mass transit and a more or less flexible productive capacity. It will take time to alter the trajectory, but really, we're in a hell of a lot better place than our ancestors.

All we need do is show enough gold to the owners of productive capacity and we'll be fine!
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Re: Impact of C-virus on music business - musos, venues, and supporting folks

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:48 pm

It's an interesting thought that infestations (of whatever kind) are generally self-limiting either through a lack of resources (food etc) or disease. If humans can be considered to have infested the planet, maybe this is the start of the self-limiting phase. :think:
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Re: Impact of C-virus on music business - musos, venues, and supporting folks

Postby Humble Bee » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:48 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Thanks for that...

But on the upside, the Eurovision Song Contest has been cancelled.

Silver linings... :bouncy:

Not too into it neither but...

I don’t think the hundreds or even thousands of people working behind the scenes for the Eurovision Song Contest would agree.

I hope they are covered.
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Re: Impact of C-virus on music business - musos, venues, and supporting folks

Postby themarqueeyears » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:22 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:It's an interesting thought that infestations (of whatever kind) are generally self-limiting either through a lack of resources (food etc) or disease. If humans can be considered to have infested the planet, maybe this is the start of the self-limiting phase. :think:

Well that's cheery.
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Re: Impact of C-virus on music business - musos, venues, and supporting folks

Postby IAA » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:42 pm

blinddrew wrote: And please pass on our collective thanks and gratitude to your son and all his colleagues.

:thumbup:
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Re: Impact of C-virus on music business - musos, venues, and supporting folks

Postby Trevor Johnson » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:53 pm

Should they have anticipated and built up stocks earlier? Possibly... but hindsight is of no help now

It seems logical, doesn't it Hugh? Except that nowadays, in healthcare, everything, and I mean everything, has a use by date. Last November we binned some very usable kit, which seriously would be OK in 20/30 years time, (metallic high grade surgical), because we were having a major inspection.....

So if you hold stocks of items, (and remember that healthcare runs a 'just-in-time', (aka Dell etc.), that are seldom used, you only hold replacement stock based on a year-to year basis.

Anyway, may I say that everyone, and I love dissent and different opinions, should in this instance do what the Government is telling them. Seriously, because otherwise you will kill some of my colleagues.
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Re: Impact of C-virus on music business - musos, venues, and supporting folks

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:57 pm

Trevor Johnson wrote:Anyway, may I say that everyone, and I love dissent and different opinions, should in this instance do what the Government is telling them. Seriously, because otherwise you will kill some of my colleagues.

I'm with you on that. :thumbup: I'm not planning on going out anywhere social until December. :D
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Re: Impact of C-virus on music business - musos, venues, and supporting folks

Postby Trevor Johnson » Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:02 pm

Thanks, Hugh, and for your always very sensible and highly regarded suport. :thumbup:
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Re: Impact of C-virus on music business - musos, venues, and supporting folks

Postby CS70 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:16 pm

Watchmaker wrote:this is a crisis of our own making.

That pangolin burger seemed sooooooo nice!! :D

Prediction: many new babies in January.

Haha, was just saying the same the other day! Interesting to see the distribution of births next year!
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Re: Impact of C-virus on music business - musos, venues, and supporting folks

Postby RichEnigma » Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:23 pm

The Red Bladder wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:We certainly live in interesting times.

We live in idiotic times!

C19 will kill a few thousand.

This mass hysteria will kill far more! Poverty kills!

This mass hysteria will knock about 20% off our GDP. That kills people!

More people are going to die through neglect by the NHS and other health systems because they are preoccupied with dealing with this non-crisis. They will do so by delaying cancer operations and delaying preventative inspections and such things as prenatal care.

Governments around the world are being stampeded into over-reaction by media over-hype and the over-reaction by generation snowflake.

I've just had C19 and it is nothing! Most people will not even realise that they've got it or just assume that they caught a bit of a cold or that they are hung-over from a wild night with a scarlet-woman from Grimsby.

I've taken dumps that were more life-threatening than this rubbish!

Every year some 10,000 to 20,000 die from the flu in the UK. Where's the panic?

One-third of all children aged eleven are morbidly obese. Where's the panic?

But no! C19 is so serious that we have to close down our travel and tourism industry (10% of GDP) and nearly all car and truck manufacturing in Europe has had to cease (5%) - I could go on!

Live music in the UK is a £4bn industry - it has been closed down. And for what?

Perhaps if we had persuaded the good people of Wuhan to not eat pangolin, bats and snakes, as well as marmots, birds, monkeys and dogs, we could have avoided all this nonsense!

Image

"At least she died with a really clean bottom!"

I totally disagree with most of your post... I find it irresponsible and lacking clarity and understanding...

Already well more than a few thousand have died from it...

The economy is already down more than 20%, at least here it is and if it wasn't for China's tremendous response and vigilance to give the rest of the World the anecdotal evidence required to succeed, I think the economy could be setting us up for worse than the great depression...

Either way, this is going to be dragging, for awhile... And that's simply down to this in your words, nonharmful non concerning virus called COVID-19

This is as serious as the Spanish flu albeit likely not as harmful...

If you check the trending curve it is way ahead of the swine flu that knocked off a few hundred thousand people...

If you ate better fiber, including psyllium fiber, your dumps would be less threatening and actually a source of pleasure...

Where I am there has been little mass hysteria, actually none at all...

A few store shelves have been emptied, but otherwise its life as normal besides the isolation part...

Sure some people are concerned, but most are pretty casual and controlled...

The only problem the Governments have is they are slow to react and simply aren't prepared...

I don't see them bowled over, I see them having to dip into the coffers at a time when money is really needed elsewhere... This could hurt some infrastructure projects which will be desperately needed once the economies recover from the massive emergency billions being used to try and soften the blow...

Overall I'm reasonably satisfied and somehwat impressed over Government action on this pandemic, albeit a bit slow... Overall they seem calm and emotionally prepared... It does expose however the day to day supply chain we have and every Govnermnet being financially and equipment unprepared for these serious of threats...

The reality is we, the human race, do not have a vaccine to this virus... And we are all terribly prepared for these emergency situations...

That means it can seriously maelstrom and balloon out of control...

The contagious spread of it is quite hard to control, and this taxes systems and especially the health care system...

You are right people will be dying from other diseases that cant be treated, because that's how serious this COVID-19 is...

And yes in many cases its rather tame, same as the Flu right, largely nothing to be concerned about? BUT, failing to look at the past will only cause us, the human race, to make the same mistakes again and again...

This is a deadly virus this COVID-19... Heres a reason why... You are big strong man and feel fine to take on the World, COVID-19 is nothing to big strong man easily defeating little weak COVID-19... So you waltz around, head to the store, the pub, the venue, and you spit while you talk, spreading droplets everywhere, all which will stay for days...

Your compromised buddy, some older pals, and other people in general now go to the same places you were, before you even know you have it...

Now they are ill... It exponentiates...

Now a ton of people aren't showing up to work... Hospitals are overcrowded, and unnecessary deaths start occurring...

Next thing you know big strong man has just caused a ton of downtime, a ton of work loss, and cost a few lives...

That is just one big strong man, not the whole global populace...

IF the human race doesn't take this seriously we are just looking at another Spanish Flu, just the flu, nothing much to worry about right?

Not only that, due to the Government dragging their feet a bit, we will also have people dying simply due to lack of equipment, that's bad news for such modern intelligent societies and people...

The media is simply engaging in best practices man... They are using known effective copywriting and speaking techniques to spurn interest and homo-sapien action, even if that is to get people gripping their chairs a bit, like watching a horror-film, because that is what this situation is... They aren't idiots, this I can assure you...

The points you are correct is in that yes, poverty does kill people, and its sad nobody can come up with any solutions to such an easy problem...

Did you know that the world has enough food for nobody to starve?? They sure do...

Did you know its not the rich starving the poor?? It's sure not, its normal everyday households throwing bad food out because they live so well they can buy more than they need...

So back to the COVID-19...

Here's the panic boss... ;)

China has flattened the curve, at least in Wuhan, and they went into full lockdown mode, full...

Italy instead chose to drag their feet, and yet still are being looked at as an example to follow for what action to take in such a serious situation...

So I know this all looks brash and harsh, but I assure you since many people choose not to adhere to social distancing, self-isolation, and quarantine, this spreads the virus, a virus the human race does not currently have a vaccine for...

This can maelstrom far out of control...

Which it has in many countries...

This puts massive pressure on the system, the economy and the care-workers...

Before you know it everyone is sick, at some level, and hospitals are jammed far out of control... This means not enough ventilators for people who have it and not enough staff either...

This puts further pressure on the system by not having the capacity for other health issues...

Once there are more patients than there are beds there is a serious level of concern...

You will see these countries spike still... China might not quite be out of it...

And you will see tens of thousands of people die possibly hundreds of thousands before this is all done...

And you want to whip up a SMALL TIME INDUSTRY so some dope heads and hippies and delusional nutjobs can go and get a bunch of people close together to spread an infectious disease that has no vaccine???

So they can keep spreading it throughout the city to everyone??

Hey let us know when you are feeling ill, so we can take you out back and put you out to pasture... I mean that is one solution we as a society could use couldn't we???

That being said agreed there should be a bit more concern over the flu, but we know the flu we have vaccines for the flu and most die due to complications elsewhere...

This is the biggest pandemic since the Spanish flu, it will be worse than the swine flu likely and more global, so that is why the panic...

The massive infectious contagious spread with no vaccine and no treatment protocol is quite alarming and certainly a spectacle of horror and concern...

I can assure you, I am upset at the slow response and the lackadaisical attitude still... If we don't stop this and stop it hard it will tank the economy beyond recovery, so hopefully, everyone reading can take it seriously and do their part to stop the spread...

And finally, you are right, the Wet Markets need to stop, there is no doubt about that...
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Re: Impact of C-virus on music business - musos, venues, and supporting folks

Postby Trevor Johnson » Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:39 pm

This is the biggest pandemic since the Spanish flu, it will be worse than the swine flu likely and more global, so that is why the panic...

Except, that this time it is possible to manage the worst affected patients, i.e. ventilated in ITU, if we keep the numbers down, hence that everyone should heed theircountries' healthcare advice. Sadly, those with co-modorbity may well succumb, plus healthcare workers exposed to massive amounts of the virus, e.g. ENT.
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Re: Impact of C-virus on music business - musos, venues, and supporting folks

Postby RichEnigma » Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:45 pm

Trevor Johnson wrote:
This is the biggest pandemic since the Spanish flu, it will be worse than the swine flu likely and more global, so that is why the panic...

Except, that this time it is possible to manage the worst affected patients, i.e. ventilated in ITU, if we keep the numbers down, hence that everyone should heed theircountries' healthcare advice. Sadly, those with co-modorbity may well succumb, plus healthcare workers exposed to massive amounts of the virus, e.g. ENT.

Yes agreed the human race is much better prepared and ready to tackle the COVID-19 than the Spanish Flu... Thankfully!

If however, the COVID-19 mutates like the Spanish Flu did, we could have another plague like death disease to deal with... Fingers crossed it doesn't mutate...
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Re: Impact of C-virus on music business - musos, venues, and supporting folks

Postby scw » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:18 am

The Red Bladder wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:We certainly live in interesting times.

We live in idiotic times!

C19 will kill a few thousand.

This mass hysteria will kill far more! Poverty kills!



Governments around the world are being stampeded into over-reaction by media over-hype and the over-reaction by generation snowflake.

I've just had C19 and it is nothing! Most people will not even realise that they've got it or just assume that they caught a bit of a cold or that they are hung-over from a wild night with a scarlet-woman from Grimsby.

I've taken dumps that were more life-threatening than this rubbish!


Sir, this is reckless advice and opinion that may endanger our nation.

I'm afraid I'm a bit late in joining this discussion. I'm a doctor and have been working round the clock managing patients, implementing changes to our workforce and trying to get a serious unified message to every patient and person I know that they should follow Government advice on social distancing and self-isolation in order to mitigate the rate of spread of this contagion.

You seem to miss the real point behind these drastic measures that have been taken by the Government. They are for the Public Health and the greater good. They are to try and "flatten the curve" and reduce the number of patients that will need ICU beds and ventilators at any given time. We have limited ICU beds in this country and they will quickly fill. Patients with non COVID-19 issues will be unable to get high dependency beds. Look at Spain and Italy. Hospitals have run out of oxygen, patients are being sent home to die. Yes, the measures taken by the Government are drastic and unprecedented but they are designed to mitigate and hopefully avoid what we have seen in Italy and Spain. The alternative is equally drastic and would be unthinkable in a civilised society.

With regards to PPE - we are where we are. It's not for doctors or nurses to turn and run when we are needed. We must manage our patients to the best of our ability with the resources we have at hand.

All of us must be unified in trying to manage this Pandemic. The time for division is not now.

I would urge everyone to look at the latest advice and follow it strictly and keep safe and well and think of friends, neighbours and family members that are in the "at risk" or "higher risk" groups who need our support.

https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus

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Re: Impact of C-virus on music business - musos, venues, and supporting folks

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:29 am

Thanks Stewart. I hope everyone here heeds your words.

I'd like to express my appreciation for all your hard work, and that of all your colleagues in this unprecedented situation. I can only imagine how hard, physically and emotionally, it must be. Having seen the reports of the desperate events in Italy and Spain I hope everyone in the UK does the sensible thing for the good of us all, and especially those of us at higher risk.
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