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Fraud and dishonesty in online Music Production Courses.

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Fraud and dishonesty in online Music Production Courses.

Postby rededfred2 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:34 pm

Hello Everyone.
I have just discovered something quite interesting about a fraud in online selling of music production courses. I think SOS should send one of there top investigators to have a look.
I watched a Youtube video showing some very informative production tricks and tips and was invited to download a free project. I gave my email address and then the next day was invited to a free live stream teaching course. Great why not so I watched the course and thought it was very good apart from over half of it was an advert for paid tutorials. No problem, the guys have to make a wage and I understand. The following day I got another email from the same chap offering another free course. I logged on and found it was the same course. The twist here is I screen recorded the previous one and know that they are exactly the same. The chat area where all the hopeful trainees are was full of eager young producers asking questions with the teacher answering (on cue) 2 of the posts. Q. Is this really live ? A. Yes this is live.
He pretends his wife is in the other room moderating the chat.
I recorded 3 screen casts over the weekend and they are exactly the same. The same content. The same people in the chat room (apart from the ones that are being duped) and exactly the same text in the chat page. This chap is trying to make out he has a very big number of people in the chat room to make you think that you are with like minded people who want to learn. This is a con and fraud and I am tempted to call the police about it as it is clearly deception.
He is a very good teacher and deserves to do well but why does he have to cheat and lie to try and get more customers.
We used to have this same con when I was a kid. These people from out of town would advertise an auction in the local community centre. They would have fake buyers in the audience to help part you from your money.
I think this type of behaviour is quite common in music production training courses and may be a lot bigger than first thought.
Paul.
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Re: Fraud and dishonesty in online Music Production Courses.

Postby Kwackman » Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:40 pm

Did you report the video to You-tube?
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Re: Fraud and dishonesty in online Music Production Courses.

Postby rededfred2 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:44 pm

Kwackman wrote:Did you report the video to You-tube?
At the moment I am trying to contact the guy and ask him to stop doing this. His tutorials are really good but this is not the way to conduct business. If he fails to respond or stop then I will report him to the Police as well as YT and FB.
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Re: Fraud and dishonesty in online Music Production Courses.

Postby CS70 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:47 pm

My $.10: bad taste perhaps, but nothing illegal. You’re not buying the presence of other people?

There are companies selling audio cables for 1500 a pop, and basically every second plugin commercial hints that if you just buy the thing your mixes will be oh so much better than before..

It’s marketing. Bad taste is almost a must..
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Re: Fraud and dishonesty in online Music Production Courses.

Postby rededfred2 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:51 pm

CS70 wrote:My $.10: bad taste perhaps, but nothing illegal. You’re not buying the presence of other people?

There are companies selling audio cables for 1500 a pop, and basically every second plugin commercial hints that if you just buy the thing your mixes will be oh so much better than before..

It’s marketing. Bad taste is almost a must..


Thats like saying fake reviews on Trip adviser is ok.
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Re: Fraud and dishonesty in online Music Production Courses.

Postby CS70 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:50 pm

A good analogy.

Not saying it's ok, just that is not illegal and there's nothing to report to the police.

"Fraud" is a big word.

Besides, TripAdvisor business model is based on reviews, so they may have an interest in taking down fake reviews. YouTube does not have a particular interest that the content of the videos are realistic or sensible.

As said, there's companies selling magic unobtanium cables for crazy prices, which is a far worse scam to me. The only defense against these people is keeping one's head turned on.

At least the guy (from what you say) is a good teacher.
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Re: Fraud and dishonesty in online Music Production Courses.

Postby Watchmaker » Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:34 am

caveat emptor, or it's only immoral to take from from the rich. Poor people are fair game and honest people are easy marks. The sad fact is people, in the aggregate, are poo. Sure there's a few thousand decent folk about, but out of 8 billion or so, that's proof that decency is a genetic trait that is rapidly being bred out of our species. The good news is that the myriad effects of runaway thermal-halide destabilization will, in all probability, soon reduce those numbers dramatically. At least the content is decent.
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Re: Fraud and dishonesty in online Music Production Courses.

Postby Mike Stranks » Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:02 am

Sadly, one has to very wary of much that is touted as 'How to...' audio advice on YouTube.

I haven't dropped-in to any of the online courses, but have stumbled across some appalling junk over the years.

The dross purporting to be 'expert advice' falls mainly into two categories:

* Basic misunderstandings about aspects of audio and the physics associated with it;
* Being completely clueless about how kit works and what the various facilities are for and how they should be used.

Woe betide you if you dare to point out in the comments the fallacies or errors

The sad thing is that there are far more comments of the 'Wow! Great! Now I understand...' variety.

But the good news is that there are some excellent and truly professional courses out there with people who will also give opinions and advice 'for free' during regular webinars.

And the other goods news is that The Elf and Zukan (Samplecraze) here, both offer training/courses in various forms - including 1:1. Both have impressive pedigrees and really know their stuff.

As for the dodgy course... mentioned by the O/P.... if no money has changed hands there's little to do apart from steer clear and, in carefully worded and non-libelous ways, warning others of what's going on.
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Re: Fraud and dishonesty in online Music Production Courses.

Postby The Red Bladder » Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:28 pm

Fraud can only happen when someone has been defrauded of funds or items of value.

Watching a prerecorded video is no more fraud than watching a band on TV pretending to play live.

You might like to occupy yourself with weightier issues - such as the government telling you that there is little or no inflation and that the UK can pay its debts!
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Re: Fraud and dishonesty in online Music Production Courses.

Postby Watchmaker » Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:57 am

The UK can pay its debts, all it needs to do is print a coin and pay off the bank. That's the neat thing about a fiat currency - debt is meaningless to a sovereign nation.
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Re: Fraud and dishonesty in online Music Production Courses.

Postby John Stafford » Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:39 am

Which course is it?
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Re: Fraud and dishonesty in online Music Production Courses.

Postby CS70 » Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:58 am

Watchmaker wrote:The UK can pay its debts, all it needs to do is print a coin and pay off the bank. That's the neat thing about a fiat currency - debt is meaningless to a sovereign nation.

Fastest way ever not to have a currency at all.

Ask Zimbabwe, or Venezuela.. :)
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Re: Fraud and dishonesty in online Music Production Courses.

Postby Watchmaker » Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:30 am

Not the same thing at all, and the World Bank, IMF and other financing institutions bear a large share of blame for those catastrophes, principally because of unrealistic austerity measures being bundled with loan rate conditions, like Cyprus and Greece not all that long ago.

I'm joking when I say print a coin. I should have used the snark alert. But I feel like ranting about national debt and why it's actually a social good despite lots of opinions to the contrary. And like all good stories, this one starts with money.

Currency is a very interesting notion indeed, especially since it became entirely faith based, as opposed to asset backed. It is nowhere near as concrete as it appears, especially sovereign debt. There are several different ways of counting money in macro economic theory but at root, a fiat currency's value is measured based on a basket of goods, aka the inflation index. The original base value is meaningless after the strike date, just like a stock price adds no capital to a company after it's issue.

But whence does the value of the currency derive? For a fiat currency, the full faith and credit of the nation, meaning the value of all holdings, including people, ports, minerals, water, ag, roads, cities, intellectual capital, goodwill and everything else forms the basis of it's worth. FF&C can be thought of as the balance sheet of a nation.

A fiat currency is valued primarily by pricing a "basket of goods" across defined economic regions and averaging at regular intervals. In the US this is the Consumer Price Index (it is also a lagging indicator of inflation) but I'm focused on how a Sovereign uses debt and some of the implications of debt for an entity that defines both the value and quantity of the currency the debt is issued in.

It's important to accept that Government, business, and households budgets and relationship to currency are inherently distinct. Can you owe money to yourself? Yes, and you might want to structure your spending that way but it won't really hurt you if you don't. Probably because you don't provide resources for the homeless, give tax breaks for the rich, set tax rates, fund healthcare and education, wage war or sponsor scientific research to line the pockets of your cronies. Also, most governments have to allocate funding by passing a law authorizing the spend. I do not have to pass a law to buy my next microphone.

So the sovereign issues it's fiat currency. Why do people use it and not some other currency, like beer or bitcoin? Because the State declares that it is only currency in which taxes can be paid. The State prints it and makes it available through the semi independent banking system confident that the citizenry can benefit by this relationship.

But the State doesn't just print endless money because that's just silly. There is a nominal supply of real currency that is needed to fund society and too much more than that sloshing about is inflationary.

But we want some inflation because that is: a) how banks make money and b) to be expected in a society where the population is growing. More people means more money is needed to fund the underlying productive economy, and more actual dollars need to be printed. The balance between monetary supply and inflation is incredibly complex and debt is one tool used to govern the rate of inflation.

So how is debt used as a limiter on inflation? There are two primary ways to my way of thinking. First, debt instruments issued by a government are sold primarily to the public at large at a notional rate of return through bonds or similar securities. So Joe six pack buys a 30 year T-bill and pats himself on the back. Other nations buy huge amounts for a variety of reasons. For example, China bought huge amounts of US treasuries to stabilize the Renminbi.

But the issuer is indifferent to the purchaser in this transaction. Someone would have bought them and if not, the Reserve Bank would have. Kinda the reason for them really.

Now, paying the interest on this debt is where people get hung up, but it's a nothing burger. The issuer actually lowers the cost of a dollar by extending debt because of the time value of money. If the inflation rate is above the coupon rate, as it almost always is, then the arbitrage on the coupon rate is favorable to the issuer, meaning that they make money on debt because the interest rate paid is lower than inflation.

Also, because the issuer pays the face value of the note on maturity, the difference in real value between when the note was issued and when it was redeemed needs to be accounted for. In an inflationary economy, the issuer can borrow existing cash at a higher realizable value today than a dollar printed tomorrow because the time value of money adds another type of arbitrage. i.e. taking profit on the discount rate inherent in the currency by spending earlier in time. The first instance was the arbitrage on the differences between the coupon rate and the inflation rate, this is arbitrage on inflation itself.

The second way borrowing reduces inflation is that the monetary supply, M2, is not increased so each dollar borrowed doesn't dilute the supply whereas printing would.

Also, when the sovereign borrows from itself to pay for infrastructure projects, they inject cash into the economy. But they then get whatever the tax rate happens to be back as people pay taxes on those earnings, so there are significant incentives to borrow for the public good. It costs one third less because of the tax re-absorption, plus whatever the return on the arbitrage is.

This little ponzi scheme works great as long as the population grows and businesses are productive. Assumptions that struggle to withstand scrutiny in our new world order.
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Re: Fraud and dishonesty in online Music Production Courses.

Postby VOLOVIA » Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:04 am

This little Ponzi scheme works great as long as the population grows and businesses are productive. Assumptions that struggle to withstand scrutiny in our new world order.
This in essence how the world works, indeed it's a constant investment in the future: the bank will front the money for a new building in the faith that the money will be repaid, with interest. As a warranty, it might insure it with A. A will sub-insure it with B, and so on.
All a gigantic Ponzi scheme. But as long as the wheel is spinning, it works. The only -productive-, "energy" to spin the wheel are the natural resources and continuous production of flesh (i.e., new markets and new consumers). That's why population growth keeps the world going. For now, towards, probably, an eco-abyss.
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Re: Fraud and dishonesty in online Music Production Courses.

Postby CS70 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:51 am

Watchmaker wrote:I'm joking when I say print a coin. I should have used the snark alert.

Yeah got that, it's why I replied with a one-liner. :thumbup:

Absolutely interesting with the rest (oh how I miss these conversations in front of a beer!) but I would not want to go there in a thread about dishonesty in Music Production Courses. :)

Make another in the lounge!
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