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[johnny h]

Apple have just updated the MacBook Pro.

Headline news is up to 32GB RAM, quad core on the 13" and 6 core on the 15".

[desmond]

And with keyboard improvements (ie "Yes, we did some work on that keyboard that everyone complained about so you can assume we fixed the problems now but we can't say the previous one was flawed. The one that was so good we have an extended repair program on keyboard problems with it for the next four years...").

Fully optioned up will set you back £6k+...

[Dave B]

But how much of it can be upgraded by the user? Do we have to spec the ram up front? Or can the user add it after? I seem to remember that Apple had toyed with the former a while back and I was narked at that. You'd think that they'd at least match (if not undercut) the competition in that scenario.

[Forum Admin]

More info from Apple UK here: https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-pro/ and bit of opinion from Cnet here: https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-macbook-pro-gets-a-surprise-update-new-intel-chips-more-ram-true-tone-screen/

[johnny h]

But how much of it can be upgraded by the user? Do we have to spec the ram up front? Or can the user add it after? I seem to remember that Apple had toyed with the former a while back and I was narked at that. You'd think that they'd at least match (if not undercut) the competition in that scenario.

I'm pretty sure the RAM will be soldered in, like it has been for years ..

The CPU upgrade is fantastic but it doesn't look like they've solved the keyboard issue unfortunately.

[desmond]

The CPU upgrade is fantastic but it doesn't look like they've solved the keyboard issue unfortunately.

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

As far as I can see, all we know is the keyboard is not exactly the same as the previous one, as it was engineered to be quieter and appears to be so from reports. Whether or not the failure modes have been fixed likely only time will tell.

Note - I'm not really a fan of the low travel keys when I tried them - perhaps I'd get used to them...

[desmond]

The CPU upgrade is fantastic but it doesn't look like they've solved the keyboard issue unfortunately.

Apparently, iFixit's teardown of the new keyboard reveals there is a new rubber sheath covering the mechanism that while Apple claim is engineered for reducing the key volume (remember, they are facing legal issues with the old keyboard so they have to be careful what thy admit) but it sure seems like it's been engineered to try to keep the dust out - which was the cause of the failures...

[ConcertinaChap]

I think Johnny was misled (as was I) by early descriptions on some sites that made it sound very much as if the issue had been ignored, probably due (as you suggest) to Apple's careful wording.

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[Agharta]

The i9 seems much too power hungry for the chassis to handle so for anyone thinking of paying the premium do some research:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx8J125s4cg

[Forum Admin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx8J125s4cg

Thanks for the YT video link. VERY insightful (especially when he puts the new MBP in his refrigerator to cool it down)!!

[desmond]

Yes, I heard about that vid (haven't watched it yet though.)

Apple's thin/light obsession, which is great for consumer or business laptops that are mostly used for email/web/documents/presentations etc, have been a problem in MBP's for a while.

My 2011 is barely going because of the poor cooling design eventually cooks the GPUs (even under light use), they are designed with the case as the main passive cooling device, with a couple of small fans pushing air away from the heat generating bits, but neither of those things can much cope with sustained periods of high CPU/GPU load (unless your computer is in Siberia or at least a freezer (yes, I have put mine in there more than once!)).

And the new generation are much thinner than the 2015 and previous machines, so can't be any better in terms of cooling performance. I think Apple would be more likely to do a whole ARM transition and eventually use their own, power efficient processors in all the portable lines (iOS & Mac), rather than wait for Intel to deliver high power but also highly power efficient chips.

In the meantime, I guess we should cut a hole in our desks and shove a fan from Argos in there...!

[Forum Admin]

I think Apple would be more likely to do a whole ARM transition and eventually use their own, power efficient processors in all the portable lines (iOS & Mac), rather than wait for Intel to deliver high power but also highly power efficient chips.

+1 ... wish it would come sooner rather than later.

[Agharta]

Apple are sometimes conservative/slow in jumping to new Intel platforms and this time they have jumped in early when it seems like a bad idea. At least they have moved away from one self-inflicted design limitation in dropping LPDDR3 so they can move beyond 16GB.

With Intel being stuck on variations of 14nm process nodes for almost 2 years longer than expected with no end in near site there’s no way they could add 50% more cores without it impacting clock speeds.
Intel need a decent 10nm process to manage the heat output.
It’s not just Apple but all laptop makers will be having to deal with this although those used to building bulkier gaming laptops should find it easier.

Moving to ARM gives no guarantee that they will have significantly better performance per watt as a lot of that is down to fabrication rather than chip design and Apple are completely dependent on 3rd parties for that.
It is getting increasingly harder to keep on shrinking the feature sizes so it’s a gamble as to who will be ahead in 2 to 5 years’ time in that area.

[TheLegit]

The i9 seems much too power hungry for the chassis to handle so for anyone thinking of paying the premium do some research:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx8J125s4cg

My god I was actually looking at this thing with the six core i9 seriously! Thanks for the video that's critical info

[Logarhythm]

In the meantime, I guess we should cut a hole in our desks and shove a fan from Argos in there...!

This actually kinda works
Some years ago I had a Toshiba laptop that was fine for mundane work stuff, but really struggled with stability when running Cubase. Temp readout suggested the poor thing just kept getting too hot, so I ended up removing parts of the casing and mounting it on top of a large plastic storage box in which I'd drilled plenty of vents, and set up a desk fan mounted on its back inside the box. Certainly wasn't pretty or especially quiet, but did significantly improve reliability. So I guess what I'm saying is spend £6k on the i9 and don't worry about thermal issues as you can cut it up and add a £20 fan in there and you're good to go

[Jim_Windhorse]

My mid-2012 MBP is still plugging away--but I know the end will come.

My question is--buy a new 2018 now? wait for the 2019? Or get a current i7 model?

From this Gizmodo review -->

https://gizmodo.com/why-apple-s-best-ma ... 1827724731

"So for people considering buying a new high-spec MacBook now that the 2018 models are out, unless something changes, you’re probably better off ignoring the Core i9 option for now. Not only is a 15-inch Core i7 MacBook Pro just as fast, it costs hundreds less too."

The hundred's less option sounds good and maybe the prices may come down on those now that the new ones are out. (?)

I run Pro Tools with lots of soft synths and plugins. (No video production and no gaming...)

I'm looking forward to keeping up with this discussion. Thanks!

[TheLegit]

In the meantime, I guess we should cut a hole in our desks and shove a fan from Argos in there...!

This actually kinda works
Some years ago I had a Toshiba laptop that was fine for mundane work stuff, but really struggled with stability when running Cubase. Temp readout suggested the poor thing just kept getting too hot, so I ended up removing parts of the casing and mounting it on top of a large plastic storage box in which I'd drilled plenty of vents, and set up a desk fan mounted on its back inside the box. Certainly wasn't pretty or especially quiet, but did significantly improve reliability. So I guess what I'm saying is spend £6k on the i9 and don't worry about thermal issues as you can cut it up and add a £20 fan in there and you're good to go

Or just keep an open freezer in your studio and use it from within there

[ConcertinaChap]

Interesting article in the Register that says the same problem is affecting Dell laptops with Core i9 processors. It sounds like a laptop is just not a suitable platform for this chip and is to be avoided in this form factor (at least for now) and is only there at the behest of marketing departments.

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[Agharta]

2018 MacBook Pro Logic Board Failure Could Result In Total Data Loss:
https://hothardware.com/news/2018-macbo ... oss-report

[ConcertinaChap]

It should also serve as a reminder that everyone should be backing up their data on a regular basis, whether it's to an external device (like a NAS box), the cloud, or both.

Well, yes. After all if the SSD itself fails you're in the same situation.

CC