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Before you install High Sierra...

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Before you install High Sierra...

Postby Forum Admin » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:47 am

High Sierra is out on Monday 25 September, complete with a new Apple Filing System (bye-bye HFS+) but those with Fusion drives should read this article:

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/18/apple-files-system-no-fusion-drive-support
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Re: Before you install High Sierra...

Postby desmond » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:59 am

Moving on past HFS+ is the single best feature OSX has had for a long time, imo... :thumbup:
It's about time.

But yes, Fusion drives won't be converted, at this time, for whatever reason...
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Re: Before you install High Sierra...

Postby ConcertinaChap » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:11 pm

Ah, well, I was planning on upgrading to High Sierra next year (just before the next OS), so no problem Apple, take your time. Get it right!

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Re: Before you install High Sierra...

Postby johnny h » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:06 pm

As always, makes zero sense to be an early adopter on these things. Let others clear the operational mine field first!
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Re: Before you install High Sierra...

Postby ConcertinaChap » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:36 pm

Hey! We agree on something!

Cheers

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Re: Before you install High Sierra...

Postby ManFromGlass » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:53 pm

and I'm still getting used to my Yosemite upgrade. Sometimes I long for TOS!

:bouncy: :tongue: :bouncy:
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Re: Before you install High Sierra...

Postby jagraphics » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:24 am

johnny h wrote:As always, makes zero sense to be an early adopter on these things. Let others clear the operational mine field first!

Totally agree! The problem is there are so many combinations of HW and SW that it is impossible for Apple, Microsoft, Adobe, etc to test them all. No matter how much testing you do it is not the same as a couple of million people doing random stress testing. I ALWAYS wait for "service Pack 1" and then a few weeks to make sure that it has fixed the main problems (or at least the opens that affect me) and not introduced more problems....

OTOH

ManFromGlass wrote:and I'm still getting used to my Yosemite upgrade. Sometimes I long for TOS!
:bouncy: :tongue: :bouncy:


As a fellow TOSer :-) I can sympathise. I have just upgraded from Mavericks to ElCapitain. I don't intend to go any further yet. Actually I don't think I can with my MAC hardware and CS6.

So my next upgrade will be HW and SW from the MAC Pro [silver] Tower and the MACBook Pro with theDVD driver, removable back and replaceable memory, battery & hard drive. This will need a lot of thinking about. My CS6 and FCPX do what I need. Actually more than. Does anyone really use the full potential of the software they have?

I don't need to do 4K video. In reality 1080p HD is better than needed for most small screens and good for anything less than a full size cinema. The Audio capabilities are good. I don't need to mix surround sound. So why upgrade?

We have reached a situation where the current standards will equal or out perform the audience for 98% of uses. I still see people arguing over 10 decimal places where humans can't resolve past 5. YEs I am sure the screens, speakers, carers and microphones will improve. The point is the human receiving systems isn't.

It amuses me that Apple put so much into the design of their computers and (used to at least) over engineer them so that they last for years but now update the SW so it won't work on the older systems. Given that the current set ups are as noted above, as good as needed for consumption by humans: Why upgrade?
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Re: Before you install High Sierra...

Postby johnny h » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:02 pm

jagraphics wrote:I don't need to do 4K video. In reality 1080p HD is better than needed for most small screens and good for anything less than a full size cinema. The Audio capabilities are good. I don't need to mix surround sound. So why upgrade?

We have reached a situation where the current standards will equal or out perform the audience for 98% of uses. I still see people arguing over 10 decimal places where humans can't resolve past 5. YEs I am sure the screens, speakers, carers and microphones will improve. The point is the human receiving systems isn't.
I would disagree strongly with that. Youtube looked decent quality when it came out. How do 320 videos look now? If you are making video just for now, sure 1080 is adequate. For more ambitious projects I would go with the best technology available to you.

Audio reproduction systems are improving immensely. What used to be a fantastic PA system just 5 years ago is now simply adequate. We still aren't even close to a situation where a recording / reproduction system can rival a real orchestra, or even a real piano.
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Re: Before you install High Sierra...

Postby Stef Andrews » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:25 pm

High Sierra, eh?!

So, would anyone suggest it's time to upgrade from Mavericks?! :headbang: I hadn't realised just *quite* how far off the release cycle i was!
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Re: Before you install High Sierra...

Postby jagraphics » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:44 pm

Stef Andrews wrote:High Sierra, eh?!

So, would anyone suggest it's time to upgrade from Mavericks?! :headbang: I hadn't realised just *quite* how far off the release cycle i was!

I had this discussion with some MAC geeks a few months back and went from Mavericks to EL Capitan on their advice. They are all stopping on El C.

This got me a major upgrade in FCPX, Lightroom, DXO and CS6 also runs smoothly on it (see Roaring apps) but I think after El C you need Adobe CC. There were some either useful updates i seem to recall and nothing stopped working going from Mavericks to El C.

My audio for is many done in FCPX and a few other apps ( Audacity, Ableton Light etc). I do video rather than producing music or dedicated sound engineering. Others will have to comment on the stability of the main audio apps on El C.

However I don't think I can go any further with my hardware so Sierra is a moot point anyway.



Strangely there was no enthusiasm to go to Sierra by any of them. Even though they knew High Sierra was coming.
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Re: Before you install High Sierra...

Postby Forum Admin » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:45 pm

Stef Andrews wrote:So, would anyone suggest it's time to upgrade from Mavericks?! :headbang: I hadn't realised just *quite* how far off the release cycle I was!

:D :D :D

I'm sure you're not alone. I'm still on Mavericks on my mid-2010 MB Pro 17-inch I use for work stuff. Had to upgrade RAM and drive to an SSD, but touch wood, it's still hopping along. I use a Yosemite MBP for music, and High Sierra isn't going near that for a good year or so!
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Re: Before you install High Sierra...

Postby desmond » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:57 pm

jagraphics wrote:I had this discussion with some MAC geeks a few months back and went from Mavericks to EL Capitan on their advice. They are all stopping on El C.

That's where I am, and will stay here for a while yet (although my MBP is dying again so I'm not sure exactly what the future will hold).

El Cap has been great in my experience, and is a nice more modern OSX over Mavericks (which was also good in its time) and it really makes Mavericks look rather old and dated in comparison. No compatibility issues, and enough "moderness" that most software will continue to work with it for some time to come.

I'll probably investigate High Sierra at some point when APFS is solid and proven in the field...
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Re: Before you install High Sierra...

Postby jagraphics » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:22 pm

For all those thinking of updating (I hesitate to use the term upgrading :-) ) OSX you should consult this web site https://roaringapps.com as it will give you a lot of guidance as to which apps will run on which versions of OSX

Also works for Windows users.

Which reminds me... we are now talking about OSX updates in the same way we talked about Windows updates. No longer is Apple seen as the gold standard and you could update without worry.
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Re: Before you install High Sierra...

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:23 pm

I moved our 3 machines from Mavericks to El Cap without any significant problem. No particular advantage to my mind apart from getting rid of the horrible glass dock and getting back on the security update cycle. Together they made the change worthwhile. Oh yes, and fullscreen is much better handled.

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Re: Before you install High Sierra...

Postby desmond » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:29 pm

jagraphics wrote:Which reminds me... we are now talking about OSX updates in the same way we talked about Windows updates. No longer is Apple seen as the gold standard and you could update without worry.

I don't really see any difference to how OSX updates should be approached since the beginning.

For production machines, the advice was *always* to not be on the bleeding edge, wait for a few subversions for others to highlight problems (and get them fixed), check your crucial software for compatibility updates , then cautiously install with an easy way to revert should any problem show up.

That advice is just as true today as it was for 10.1 - the only real difference these days is we don't have to pay £100+ for the new OS version, or trudge into an Apple Store to pick up a piece of plastic... :headbang:
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Re: Before you install High Sierra...

Postby Forum Admin » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:37 pm

desmond wrote:...the only real difference these days is we don't have to pay £100+ for the new OS version, or trudge into an Apple Store to pick up a piece of plastic... :headbang:

...silver-coated plastic (more valuable). :D And oh so beautifully packaged... ;)

It's been free since Mavericks...

OS X Mavericks - 10.9
OS X Yosemite - 10.10
OS X El Capitan - 10.11
macOS Sierra - 10.12
macOS High Sierra - 10.13

...so anyone who's updated every time has saved themselves approximately £500.
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Re: Before you install High Sierra...

Postby desmond » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:59 pm

Yep, I think Snow Leopard was the first one to come down to about £30, all previous versions were something like £129 iirc...
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Re: Before you install High Sierra...

Postby Forum Admin » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:21 pm

desmond wrote: I think Snow Leopard was the first one to come down to about £30...

And Apple UK are STILL selling it today - for £19.99
https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MC573Z/A/mac-os-x-106-snow-leopard
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Re: Before you install High Sierra...

Postby Dave B » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:52 pm

er ... I'm happily on Sierra ... nothing is broken or unstable - although I've stopped using 32lives to wrap old plugins so might have another stab at that.

However, I might just hold off on HS until I know that the file system is stable. And I have an external drive set up as a RAID array, so until I back that up fully, I'm not even thinking about touching the studio machine...
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Re: Before you install High Sierra...

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:48 pm

Dave B wrote:However, I might just hold off on HS until I know that the file system is stable.

If you've got a fusion drive (as I have) it won't change the filesystem. Apparently they're still sorting that out. Fair enough, say I. Caught a few beta testers apparently. As I said earlier, no rush, Apple but please get it right!

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