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Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

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Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby forumuser653351 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:46 pm

Right, first and foremost, this post is not complaining about, or, bashing Logic X in any way. I think Logic is great and I’m a long time user, from it’s early e-magic days. However I am struggling with Logic X, I just don’t seem to enjoy using it like I used to and sometimes I find it overly complicated and gets in the way of creativity and in getting jobs done. So, two questions:
1) Has anyone else experienced something similar with Logic X and how did they overcome it?
2) Has anyone migrated from Logic X to another DAW, and if so which one and how was it? (I feel tempted to try Studio One).
Many thanks, and just to reiterate, I’m not complaining about Logic X in any way - I’m looking for positive solutions.
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Re: Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby desmond » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:03 pm

forumuser653351 wrote:However I am struggling with Logic X, I just don’t seem to enjoy using it like I used to and sometimes I find it overly complicated and gets in the way of creativity and in getting jobs done.

If you really feel this way, it won't hurt investigating other DAWs to see how you get on with them. You might find something like like better, or might come to the conclusion that they're all pretty much over-complicated and do much the same things - some people like to revert back to other approaches (eg hardware recorders) to keep things simple.

forumuser653351 wrote:1) Has anyone else experienced something similar with Logic X and how did they overcome it?

I find Logic by far the least complicated (in terms of in your face screen clutter) of all the DAWs, but I'm very familiar with it. But when I look at my main working screen compared to other people's DAWs, mine by far has the leat amount of clutter in the workspace - Logic is very configurable, so try turning things off, getting them out of the way.

Logic *has* got more complicated over the past few years because of adding features like flex-time/flex-pitch etc, but again, you can turn off and hide all that stuff so you don't have to see it.

What are the things that you are finding get in the way and hampering your creativity? Something specific, or just in general?

forumuser653351 wrote:2) Has anyone migrated from Logic X to another DAW, and if so which one and how was it? (I feel tempted to try Studio One).

I won't leave Logic, but I do dabble with other DAWs. Reaper, for example, I find pretty complicated in terms of visual clutter - you open up a region info panel and you get a dialog box with 60 options, for example. I use Ableton Live as it's good at some things that Logic isn't so good at.

But have a look at Reaper, have a look at Studio One, Cubase etc, see if something clicks better for you, perhaps..?
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Re: Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby forumuser653351 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:19 pm

Thanks for your input, useful stuff.
There is nothing specific, just general. Well, possible things like key commands are different from previous versions and plugins/instruments have changed quite a lot. I think basically I used to be able to use previous versions really well and I can’t use version 10 as well, and it just doesn’t feel as logical as I used to find it. Oh and there isn't a printed manual - I get frustrated having to keep looking stuff up online all the time! I feel I’m craving simplicity and too much choice and complexity gets in the way.
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Re: Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby desmond » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:42 pm

forumuser653351 wrote:Well, possible things like key commands are different from previous versions

My key commands have largely stayed the same since the 90s, bar a few expansions along the way! But that's because I use my own set, not the default set. And yes, they do change from time to time, mostly to accommodate new features and to keep a layout that make sense, but you can customise them all, so change them to how you want them to be, don't let Apple dictate to you how *they* think you should work!

Don't forget, if you do switch, *everything* will be different commands, so you'll have to unlearn/learn new ones anyway.

People don't customise key commands enough, imo. Sure, some people are happy mousing around (ugh!), but spending a little time bring all your commonly used tools together makes a massive difference to a fast and efficient workflow.

The only significant key command change they enforced was a little while back, in that Apple decided you should no longer be able to use the tab key for anything other than the system use - which was a bit annoying, as I had a bunch of long-term key commands set up around the tab key, which I had to change to something else...

forumuser653351 wrote:and plugins/instruments have changed quite a lot.

In general, the functionality/controls stayed exactly the same, they just updated the layouts for retina-friendly and resizable graphics. They did add some new plugins, but again, you don't have to use them.

I'm just trying to explore where you feel the blocks are, in case something practical can be done about them. If some of these things really are along the "I don't like having to deal with change" thing, then switching to another DAW is not going to be an immediate solution for that! ;)

forumuser653351 wrote:I think basically I used to be able to use previous versions really well and I can’t use version 10 as well, and it just doesn’t feel as logical as I used to find it.

It's difficult to explore without seeing you work, but the workflow hasn't really changed much - if anything, a lot of stuff works better than before, but yes, some of that involves change and some people just don't like dealing with change! :)

BTW, Unless you're on High Sierra onwards, you can still run LP9, if you're really happier there.

forumuser653351 wrote:Oh and there isn't a printed manual - I get frustrated having to keep looking stuff up online all the time!

I have a box with Notator/Logic printed manuals going back to 1987. It weighs about half a ton. I'm *much* happier with the virtual docs* stuff, but ymmv! :)

*Apart from Apple's Help application, which is still, and always has been, terrrible...

forumuser653351 wrote:I feel I’m craving simplicity and too much choice and complexity gets in the way.

Yes, it's not an uncommon feeling, and is a big reason some folks are moving away from a computer/screen-centric workflow - not as flexible for sure, but more immediate, and perhaps lets you focus on the music/performances more. Maybe you're really after a break from the DAW altogether..?
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Re: Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby forumuser653351 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:40 pm

Lots of stuff to contemplate there, thanks!
Sorting out my key commands will greatly help.
I don’t like the current pace of change in DAWs and technology in general, it feels like we’re chasing our tails to keep up. I would rather slow down so I can use more energy for creating. But on the other hand I do like some of the new functions e.g. flex time (I’m not sure I want to be DAW free but getting away from a computer screen with something like a tactile work surface does sound appealing).
Yes, I don’t have to use all the plugins and instruments, however psychologically speaking I feel a bit overwhelmed by having them all there and not using them. In a way I would prefer to have a limited palette to work with.
Funny enough I feel OK about learning a completely new DAW, it doesn’t phase me at all but trying to re-learn a DAW that I used to know is hard work but I do need to make that effort.
In conclusion I will sort out my key commands, see how I can configure the Logic workspace, make a concerted effort to get back up to speed with Logic X, look into tactile work surfaces and also try a few other DAWs to see how they feel.
Thanks.
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Re: Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby desmond » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:09 pm

No worries, let us know how you get on, and I’m always happy to help if you have any Logic questions going forward...
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Re: Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby James Perrett » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:14 pm

forumuser653351 wrote:There is nothing specific, just general. Well, possible things like key commands are different from previous versions ...

One thought - if you do fancy trying Reaper it might be worth checking to see if anyone has created a Logic style theme so that you can still use your favourite key commands.
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Re: Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby ConcertinaChap » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:16 pm

forumuser653351 wrote: Oh and there isn't a printed manual

This is a general change in software which I also regret. One of the things that made me a good computer programmer was a facility with printed manuals; I had the knack of zeroing in quickly on the information I was after. You just can't flip through PDFs in the same way. I know "Google is my friend" and I understand some of the reasons (a version point advance in Logic can cover a considerable amount of functionality and you can't keep reissuing manuals for each such change) but I do miss printed manuals.

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Re: Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby Agharta » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:02 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:
forumuser653351 wrote: Oh and there isn't a printed manual

This is a general change in software which I also regret. One of the things that made me a good computer programmer was a facility with printed manuals; I had the knack of zeroing in quickly on the information I was after. You just can't flip through PDFs in the same way. I know "Google is my friend" and I understand some of the reasons (a version point advance in Logic can cover a considerable amount of functionality and you can't keep reissuing manuals for each such change) but I do miss printed manuals.

CC
Have you tried printing the PDF manuals?
Although the cost if there's a lot of colour images might be too high for comfort.
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Re: Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby James Perrett » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:51 am

ConcertinaChap wrote:One of the things that made me a good computer programmer was a facility with printed manuals; I had the knack of zeroing in quickly on the information I was after.

One reflex I quickly learned when starting with Visual Studio was to highlight the bit I wanted to know about and hit the F1 key. Microsoft made this work really well but it didn't always work as well with other companies' development systems.
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Re: Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby forumuser653351 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:13 am

CC[/quote]
Have you tried printing the PDF manuals?
Although the cost if there's a lot of colour images might be too high for comfort.[/quote]

Yes, I've seriously considered this but the cost is prohibitive, although I may have to get over that. What I really miss though is a good index, search functions don’t work nearly as well.
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Re: Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby ConcertinaChap » Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:23 pm

Agharta wrote:Have you tried printing the PDF manuals?
Although the cost if there's a lot of colour images might be too high for comfort.

I'm in the fortunate position of owning a pretty powerful "departmental" colour laser (a hangover from when my wife had a greeting cards business and we did our own catalogues and other printing) and yes, I have printed manuals, and bound them etc and it's a lot of faff even for someone in my position. It's not ideal and I still regard it as a seriously retrograde step in usability. Still when everyone else has switched to PDFs what impetus has Apple to do it right?

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Re: Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby Agharta » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:58 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:
Agharta wrote:Have you tried printing the PDF manuals?
Although the cost if there's a lot of colour images might be too high for comfort.

I'm in the fortunate position of owning a pretty powerful "departmental" colour laser (a hangover from when my wife had a greeting cards business and we did our own catalogues and other printing) and yes, I have printed manuals, and bound them etc and it's a lot of faff even for someone in my position. It's not ideal and I still regard it as a seriously retrograde step in usability.
I suppose documents created primarily as a PDF are formatted in a way that might look second best when printed!

For computer programming I used to find it useful looking at 3rd party books but they were so bulky they seem archaic today.
I did find one useful feature looking in a book on Delphi 7 I think which was about memory mapped files, although that may not be the correct term.
Using that feature I developed an MP3 player in 2000 that could search and sort across multiple fields with a large dataset in just 100s of milliseconds.
The other commercial players I was using either crashed or took nearly a minute.
I did think of releasing it as shareware as it was that far ahead of most players.
This all inspired by scanning one book albeit not an official manual.
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Re: Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby ManFromGlass » Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:43 pm

I remember when Logic came with manuals. I would read a few paragraphs every night before going to sleep. Not more than that because it required a lot of focus but it did also knock me right out. Then the manuals with their plastic binder got too heavy to hold up in bed.
So I'm way behind in newer features and when I need them I will go to YouTubes for information. I have a lot of things hidden and turned off. I like a simple arrange page to start with. Then things only get as complicated as the music dictates.
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Re: Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby desmond » Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:52 pm

ManFromGlass wrote:I have a lot of things hidden and turned off. I like a simple arrange page to start with. Then things only get as complicated as the music dictates.

+1
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Re: Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby Blott » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:29 pm

There's two layouts in Logic, there's a basic layout which simplifies the interface a little and hides some of the more advanced features, so that might be worth a try too. :)
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Re: Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby CS70 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:08 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:
Agharta wrote:Have you tried printing the PDF manuals?
Although the cost if there's a lot of colour images might be too high for comfort.

I'm in the fortunate position of owning a pretty powerful "departmental" colour laser (a hangover from when my wife had a greeting cards business and we did our own catalogues and other printing) and yes, I have printed manuals, and bound them etc and it's a lot of faff even for someone in my position. It's not ideal and I still regard it as a seriously retrograde step in usability. Still when everyone else has switched to PDFs what impetus has Apple to do it right?

CC

Easiest is to use a pad to read PDFs. With the right readers setup, it's pretty much like an ebook. A pad can be used almost everywhere you'd could a book (beach excluded perhaps) and has the same from factor as a book. The plus you dont need a light to read it.
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Re: Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby forumuser653351 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:55 am

desmond wrote:
ManFromGlass wrote:I have a lot of things hidden and turned off. I like a simple arrange page to start with. Then things only get as complicated as the music dictates.

+1

Yes, I’ve now simplified the layout in Logic, which is much nicer to work in.
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Re: Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby forumuser653351 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:55 am

Blott wrote:There's two layouts in Logic, there's a basic layout which simplifies the interface a little and hides some of the more advanced features, so that might be worth a try too. :)

I didn’t know that, useful, thanks :)
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Re: Struggling with enjoying using Logic X

Postby forumuser653351 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:58 am

CS70 wrote:
ConcertinaChap wrote:
Agharta wrote:Have you tried printing the PDF manuals?
Although the cost if there's a lot of colour images might be too high for comfort.

I'm in the fortunate position of owning a pretty powerful "departmental" colour laser (a hangover from when my wife had a greeting cards business and we did our own catalogues and other printing) and yes, I have printed manuals, and bound them etc and it's a lot of faff even for someone in my position. It's not ideal and I still regard it as a seriously retrograde step in usability. Still when everyone else has switched to PDFs what impetus has Apple to do it right?

CC

Easiest is to use a pad to read PDFs. With the right readers setup, it's pretty much like an ebook. A pad can be used almost everywhere you'd could a book (beach excluded perhaps) and has the same from factor as a book. The plus you dont need a light to read it.

Thanks for your suggestion :) Unfortunately it doesn’t work for me - I guess I’m just old fashioned that I prefer to read from paper and not a screen!
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