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Audio problems on latest Macs?

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Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:04 am
by ConcertinaChap
cyrano.mac wrote:
redlester wrote:
ConcertinaChap wrote:I can't understand it other than blatant profiteering? Surely SSD's, with no moving parts, should be cheaper to manufacture than a fiddly mechanical hard drive?

For the record your quoting indentation is wrong. I did not write that.

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Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:16 am
by Dave B
CS, guaranteed latency is not guaranteed delivery. There are caveats for using Isochronous transfers - "but with possible data loss". As I understand it, on a practical level, the speed of the bus is fast enough that it looks like a stream, but it is implemented as a series of bursts still. It's very good, and if you are doing jobs where you can request the data again, then it's brilliant - even attaching disks is ok (unless they are maxing out). But the streaming in firewire / IEEE-1394 seems to be more fundamental to the design and implementation. Remember, a whole load of FW audio interfaces were late shipping years ago as the manufacturer of the controller chip had skimped on the implementation and what they built didn't work right, forcing a re-design with an alternate FW controller chip. I have a dim memory that the iso-transfer was involved in that...

Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:34 am
by Dave B
And Johnny - the computer being sold has Thunderbolt ports, no? Like Firewire, that is a protocol which handles streaming and, it could be argued, is the preferred interface for external audio. It would be my choice, anyway.

Obviously, ymmv. But I'm a firm believer in the right tool for the right job.

Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:58 am
by johnny h
Dave B wrote:And Johnny - the computer being sold has Thunderbolt ports, no?
So what? Most soundcards these days use USB and work perfectly on most new and old laptops. Focusrite have started to drop their thunderbolt clarett range and move back to USB. RME's latency over USB is as good as Thunderbolt these days.
Like Firewire, that is a protocol which handles streaming and, it could be argued, is the preferred interface for external audio. It would be my choice, anyway.
The whole point of laptops is they are portable. I use my 2017 Macbook Pro in many different studios, each equipped with different soundcards and different interfaces (usb, firewire, thunderbolt2) and it works just fine. Because of Apple's negligence, this is no longer possible with their incredibly expensive new models.

I love OSX and Apple's general design quality but I really don't know how you can possibly defend them here. I know a lot of people who are losing patience with Apple and are even contemplating moving back to the horrors of Windows.

Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:01 pm
by Dave B
I'm not defending anyone - nor am I attacking anyone. I'm just pointing out why someone may have a different view of the situation.

(and why I can see the point - it's a skill that people seem to have lost in this age ... other people who do not share your view are not wrong / evil / incompetent / out to rule the world / squid-like overlords out to convert us all into protoplasm / etc)

Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:29 pm
by blinddrew
Um, just for the record, I am a squid-like overlord trying to convert you all to protoplasm.
Just thought you should know.

As you were...

Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:49 pm
by johnny h
Dave B wrote:I'm not defending anyone - nor am I attacking anyone. I'm just pointing out why someone may have a different view of the situation.

(and why I can see the point - it's a skill that people seem to have lost in this age ... other people who do not share your view are not wrong / evil / incompetent / out to rule the world / squid-like overlords out to convert us all into protoplasm / etc)
I'm not saying you're evil, but it does appear to be a pretty extreme pro-Apple viewpoint to take to make excuses for this. I mean, we're not talking about economy machines here, nor new technology, nor a minor oversight.

I very much doubt Jobs himself would have exonerated his staff for such a horrendous feck up!

Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:17 pm
by ConcertinaChap
blinddrew wrote:Um, just for the record, I am a squid-like overlord trying to convert you all to protoplasm.
Just thought you should know.

But of course we knew. Whatever made you think we didn't?

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Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:19 pm
by blinddrew
Well, er, well, um....
I blame Dave.
For everything!

Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:33 pm
by Dave B
johnny h wrote:I'm not saying you're evil, but it does appear to be a pretty extreme pro-Apple viewpoint to take to make excuses for this.

OK, now I'm confused. What part of this don't you understand? I've stated why I can see that there may be another viewpoint - which, when you look at Apple's historic view of its interfaces, is something that I understand and, for good technical reasons, have some sympathy for. If it were Microsoft, I'd be saying the same thing. Ditto Dell, IBM, HP .. should I go on?

I'm not saying that I agree with it, just that I understand how it might have been missed given the company's priorities. I have made no comment defending Apple's implementation at all.

My opinions are mine - not yours. If you wish me to state or clarify them, then by all means feel free to ask, but rushing to judge just to make some silly point is actually deeply offensive.

Stopping now as I am ..... quite miffed ....

Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:14 pm
by ConcertinaChap
johnny h wrote:I very much doubt Jobs himself would have exonerated his staff for such a horrendous feck up!

Well I see Jonny Ive is leaving Apple too (though managing to avoid dying first to do it) so maybe the writing's on the wall.

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Re: Audio problems on latest Macs?

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:56 pm
by Eddy Deegan
Dave B wrote:Stopping now as I am ..... quite miffed ....

Here you go mate, guaranteed to improve one's mood :thumbup:

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