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Can't get ambisonic to work with Logic

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Re: Can't get ambisonic to work with Logic

Postby Wonks » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:51 am

I can only think that there must be some encoding difference in your external samples that Logic doesn't like or isn't fully compatible with the plug-in.
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Re: Can't get ambisonic to work with Logic

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:03 pm

The samples were mostly downloaded from Rode's website so the plugin shouldn't be the issue, and the issue also occurred with the Surroundzone plugin (the equivalent from Soundfield) so on balance I'd say the fickle finger of blame is pointing mostly in Logic's direction. We shall see.

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Re: Can't get ambisonic to work with Logic

Postby Wonks » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:15 pm

I have just realised that this is the insane world of the Mac forum, where I have no right or wish to be. :o
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Re: Can't get ambisonic to work with Logic

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:22 pm

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Re: Can't get ambisonic to work with Logic

Postby Wonks » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:24 pm

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Re: Can't get ambisonic to work with Logic

Postby Dave B » Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:34 am

This is all fascinating. I'm not sure that you want quad at all - surely you want to provide the Rode plugin with Ambisonic A or B format files? These would effectively be a combined stream of 4 mono files - so the trick here is to find a way of turning your 4 mono files into ambisonic format files. Then, you can send that through to the Rode plugin to process it into a stereo file.

So you are looking at quad as it is a 4 channel file format? Is that valid to feed into the Rode plugin? It says it requires A or B format input.. can your 'quad' format feed that?

Confused.

I'd also vote for "email Rode and ask how to turn mono files into A or B format files for processing in Logic". They must know of a process and, as they are supplying a plugin, must have a workflow to follow...
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Re: Can't get ambisonic to work with Logic

Postby Sam Inglis » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:07 am

I don't think there is a specific Ambisonic file format, is there? Certainly to use these plug-ins in Pro Tools you need to have your audio on a standard Quad track.
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Re: Can't get ambisonic to work with Logic

Postby ConcertinaChap » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:25 am

And the same in Logic. What the plugin is expecting to see is 4 streams of audio data within the one channel, i.e. a quadrophonic channel. It will treat that as ambisonic data (A or B format as you tell it).

When you record from an ambisonic mic in Logic you need to enable surround in preferences, then create a quad track (which Logic helpfully assigns to the first 4 inputs on your interface), plug in the mic and record. This creates a polywav file. I've tried this out in principle with 4 unrelated mics and the plugin works with those. The NT-SF1 arrives sometime today and I'll try it out for real then.

My concern is that when you import a polywav file instead of creating a fresh one by recording it all seems to go belly up. I've done a lot of googling on this and drawn a blank; I guess I'll try Rode support when I've had a play with the mic. At least I've managed to get Wave Agent installed so that gives me another line of attack on the problem.

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Re: Can't get ambisonic to work with Logic

Postby ConcertinaChap » Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:38 pm

Well, the mic's arrived and ... it works fine with Logic. I rotated the mic slowly in my hands while talking rubbish into it and then played back through the Soundfield by Rode plugin specifying a stereo output. I was quite shocked how effectively I could change the polar pattern of the virtual mic and focus in on different points in the ring of space around the physical mic. The spectral effect that shows the current directions sound is being received from is also effective as well as pretty, you miss it with the Surroundzone 2 plugin which doesn't have an equivalent. I'm pretty chuffed as it means I can use this mic exactly as I'd hoped.

Next stop, then, why can't I import ambisonic files into Logic?

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Re: Can't get ambisonic to work with Logic

Postby ConcertinaChap » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:38 pm

It gets stranger. I treated the audio data file created during my test above as a physical data file and imported it into a new Logic project. It worked fine. I thought this might be because the Logic file was aiff whereas the sample files were all wavs so I tried converting one of the wavs to aiff using Audacity. Still the same problem on import. It seems that Logic is happy with poly files it makes itself and positively unhappy about anybody else's. Sigh.

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Re: Can't get ambisonic to work with Logic

Postby Matt Houghton » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:55 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:Next stop, then, why can't I import ambisonic files into Logic?

I've not tried importing polywavs into Logic, but I do remember Logic behaving differently with 'in-house' recorded audio files and those created in other DAWs, when I wanted it to treat separate L and R files as stereo (ie automatically put them on a stereo track in the project, panned appropriately). It could do it automatically if Logic had created them, but not if another DAW had, however I named them. That does suggest that there's some 'mystic Appleness' going on in the way Logic creates/imports audio files... But I never did get to the bottom of it (because I just used a more logical DAW to solve the issue, obviously :beamup: )

Do let us know if you figure it out!
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Re: Can't get ambisonic to work with Logic

Postby ConcertinaChap » Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:09 pm

Matt Houghton wrote:That does suggest that there's some 'mystic Appleness' going on in the way Logic creates/imports audio files...
...
Do let us know if you figure it out!

I will (and I think Rode support is my next stop now I think I've proved it's not a Logic configuration issue) but what you describe is so much like my experience here I think you've got Apple bang to rights.

:(

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Re: Can't get ambisonic to work with Logic

Postby ManFromGlass » Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:32 pm

I’m jealous about the mic! Keep us up to date with your adventures. Last year I was experimenting with Ambisonics Toolkit (free) to make the audio pan with the visuals. I didn’t get as far as importing the files into Logic.

re: Apple. As I lhave just learned with another piece of software that is supposed to work with Logic, sometimes Apple doesn’t conform to it’s own spec.
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Re: Can't get ambisonic to work with Logic

Postby ConcertinaChap » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:37 pm

Well, to round this off I've found a workaround for myself. It's a bit clunky but it works and it's basically getting Logic to create the polywav file before importing it. (Just to reiterate, this is a problem that affects the importing of polywav files created on platforms other than Logic). So for anyone else who hits this problem here we go:

1) Drag the polywav file onto the arrange area. You will be asked what to do with it. Select "Create new tracks". This will create 4 mono tracks with the input set to mono / surround (i.e. a simple circle symbol next to the word srnd) and the output to surround.

2) for each track in turn open the surround panner and set the pan for the track as follows:

Track 1 to top left
Track 2 to top right
Track 3 to bottom left
Track 4 to bottom right

Intermezzo) If you put the Soundfield by Rode plugin on the Master channel you’ll find it works and all is well. However you are still stuck with 4 mono tracks filling up your space and much mucking about if you want to have more than 1 instance of the recording, e.g. so you can use more than 1 instance of the plugin. The next step will use Logic to generate a new polywav file that it will be happy with.

3) Click Bounce on the Master channel and make sure that Surround Bounce and Add To Project are both set. Set file format, resolution and bit rate appropriately for your project.

4) Click OK. When the File Save screen comes up choose an appropriate filename but don't save in Bounces. Save in Audio Files for the project instead (that's for neatness, mostly but also to avoid deleting the file accidentally later) .

5) The bounced file will now appear in the Project Browser and you can drag it into the arrange area for its own track and use it however you wish. You can also delete the four mono tracks.

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Re: Can't get ambisonic to work with Logic

Postby MOF » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:21 pm

Are you able to export binaural versions of your ambisonic recordings? I’d like to hear a short sample, if that’s possible?
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