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UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby desmond » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:12 pm

jellyjim wrote:Aggressive sales techniques or what?

Or you could go from the angle of an "easy demo experience" if you like... :bouncy:

jellyjim wrote:But also terrible user experience if I can't hide the plug-ins I don't own. When or wherever I might select a UAD plug-in, will I always see those I don't own?

I don't know what your DAW is, but at least in Logic you can hide whatever plugins you like.
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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby jellyjim » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:15 pm

desmond wrote:
jellyjim wrote:Aggressive sales techniques or what?

Or you could go from the angle of an "easy demo experience" if you like... :bouncy:

I have indeed seen that as the counter argument ;)

desmond wrote:
jellyjim wrote:But also terrible user experience if I can't hide the plug-ins I don't own. When or wherever I might select a UAD plug-in, will I always see those I don't own?

I don't know what your DAW is, but at least in Logic you can hide whatever plugins you like.

Yes Logic, good, of course. How about in the UAD Console software though?

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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:18 pm

The UAD software obviously knows about (and downloads) all of the plugins, because it allows you to demo the ones you don't already own.

I use a PCIe Quad card, rather than an Apollo, but I doubt it works any differently. I have all of the plugs (as NFRs) but I don't use them all and -- like you -- don't want hundreds of plugins cluttering things up in my DAW listings. So, I just copy the dlls of those I use into different directory locations that I then tell my different DAWs to use. That way I have a different set of plugins when I'm mastering, or editing, or mixing, or whatever, and only the ones I want or need are visible.

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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby ConcertinaChap » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:22 pm

You can't hide them in the console (I've just checked) but the plugins are grouped by type so it's pretty quick to find the plugin you want. Personally I tend not to use plugins in the console, just comfort reverb if requested (which is trivially easy to set up).

On the demo side of things each time the software is upgraded (which happens quite frequently) the demo counters get reset to zero, so the demo terms are really quite generous.

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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby jellyjim » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:24 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:You can't hide them in the console (I've just checked) but the plugins are grouped by type so it's pretty quick to find the plugin you want. Personally I tend not to use plugins in the console, just comfort reverb if requested (which is trivially easy to set up).

Aren't the newer 'unison' plug-ins in the console only, or summink? no, maybe I imagined that
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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby ConcertinaChap » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:26 pm

The Unison plugins work as normal plugins in the DAW, but if you want to use them to colour your preamps while tracking then that's when you do the unison bit in the console. Other plugins like reverbs have a different insert point in the console. You can choose whether they affect the final recording or not. Personally I like to leave all such decisions till mixdown, not having the confidence in myself to commit earlier than that.

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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby jellyjim » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:26 pm

coolio, thanks gents
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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby redlester » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:13 pm

I use UAD (Apollo 8 Duo + Octo Satellite) with Ableton Live 10, and have found it's a great use for Ableton's "favourites" system in the browser.

Every time I buy a new UAD plugin (too often for my own good) I right-click it in Ableton and assign it to the Red colour. So all the ones I own are listed under red in the Favourites list. The rest are hidden away in a sub-folder out of sight until needed.

I see the hardware has recently shot up in price. I paid about £750 for my Satellite back in February, they are now over £1,000!
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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby johnny h » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:45 pm

redlester wrote:I use UAD (Apollo 8 Duo + Octo Satellite) with Ableton Live 10, and have found it's a great use for Ableton's "favourites" system in the browser.

Every time I buy a new UAD plugin (too often for my own good) I right-click it in Ableton and assign it to the Red colour. So all the ones I own are listed under red in the Favourites list. The rest are hidden away in a sub-folder out of sight until needed.

I see the hardware has recently shot up in price. I paid about £750 for my Satellite back in February, they are now over £1,000!
People find it easier to give money for "hardware", despite the fact that these ancient SHARC chips are cheap as hell and it can be just as expensive to develop native software.

The whole success is only partly to do with the quality of the plugins. Much of it is also about people's sunk costs into plugins and DSP hardware, mixed with regular "promotions" and "coupons" to nudge people into throwing more money at it.

But you know, if it works for people, fine - enjoy! Just, if you are starting out thinking what to buy, I'd strongly advise anyone to steer well clear of this system. Its Pentium III era technology they are selling here.
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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:01 pm

johnny h wrote:The whole success is only partly to do with the quality of the plugins. Much of it is also about people's sunk costs into plugins and DSP hardware, mixed with regular "promotions" and "coupons" to nudge people into throwing more money at it.

Maybe it's just me, but you seem to have a nasty chip on your shoulder about UAD. It's as if you just resent their success for some reason. I can't quite fathom it out...

I don't see how the Sharc DSP tech, or the price of the raw chips, matters. It does what it needs to do. They make a profit from it... which enables them to invest in more plugin development. What's so wrong?

...if you are starting out thinking what to buy, I'd strongly advise anyone to steer well clear of this system.

Fair enough. I agree that there are a lot of excellent native plugins available that are as good (or maybe even better in some cases), and don't involve the cost and inconvenience of the DSP hardware. So yes, some thought should be entertained before deciding on which route to follow.

On the other hand, the Apollo Unison preamp thing can't be done with native plugins and is a significant part of the UAD appeal for many today.

Its Pentium III era technology they are selling here.

Yes... but so what? There are cheap-as-chips NE5534 op-amps in all manner of current analogue equipment, and they were invented way before the Pentium III. Oh the horror! :lol:

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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby ConcertinaChap » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:03 pm

It does of course mean it's pretty reliable and predictable. I used to work in a company with a heavy involvement in developing onboard software for satellites (I didn't do this myself but I knew plenty who did). The hardware they developed for was always years and years out of date. Satellites never have the latest-and-greatest processors or anything else. Instead they use completely understood and totally reliable bug-free older designs. So if you worry about UAD using old hardware just console yourself that the same chips are probably being used in telecoms satellites being lofted up from Canaveral right now.

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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby jellyjim » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:08 pm

Why the platform has caught my eye:

Trivial reasons

The boxes are shiny and pretty
Great GUIs of cool vintage gear

Reasons that could be true of any hardware platform

Great features/flexible
Great sound quality

Reasons that could be true of any software platform

Great range of great sounding plugins

Reasons specific to UAD platform

My music laptop is under spec’d. If I can palm off processing to external DSP then, great!

Dislike

Cost
Aggressive marketing
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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby ConcertinaChap » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:28 pm

Whereabouts are you? If you're over near Wilshire way you'd be welcome to bring your laptop over and try it out with my kit and see what you think.

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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby redlester » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:30 pm

jellyjim wrote:Aggressive marketing

Agressive marketing is not limited to UAD. I find Izotope and others far worse in that respect.

I dived into UAD fully aware of what I was doing and why - I also wanted a new interface with more inputs, so it suited me perfectly.
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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby jellyjim » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:52 pm

redlester wrote:
jellyjim wrote:Aggressive marketing

Agressive marketing is not limited to UAD. I find Izotope and others far worse in that respect.

Of course not no, but if 'in-app' purchases find their way to the desktop I'm quitting!

redlester wrote:I dived into UAD fully aware of what I was doing and why - I also wanted a new interface with more inputs, so it suited me perfectly.

It all looks great. I'm very tempted.
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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby jellyjim » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:54 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:Whereabouts are you? If you're over near Wilshire way you'd be welcome to bring your laptop over and try it out with my kit and see what you think.

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That's a very kind offer sir. Wiltshire is a lovely part of the world but sadly, not a part of the world I'm in very often
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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby redlester » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:59 pm

jellyjim wrote:
redlester wrote:
jellyjim wrote:Of course not no, but if 'in-app' purchases find their way to the desktop I'm quitting!

Am not sure what you mean by that.
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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby jellyjim » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:04 pm

redlester wrote:
jellyjim wrote:
redlester wrote:
jellyjim wrote:Of course not no, but if 'in-app' purchases find their way to the desktop I'm quitting!

Am not sure what you mean by that.

First of all, I don't know if this is how th UAD stuff behaves or not as I don't own any of it yet

But I don't like the idea of being marketed at 'within the application itself' (like 'in-app purchases' on mobile phone platforms)

Fine, email me, bombard me with offers if I visit your website, but I find marketing within an application too intrusive

But like I say, I don't know if this is how the software behaves or not and please don't feel the need to defend UAD on my behalf - whilst I might dislike aggressive marketing I understand the need and UAD are an amazing innovative company

I just like to be able to turn off the selling in the privacy of my own desktop :)
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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby desmond » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:07 pm

jellyjim wrote:Fine, email me, bombard me with offers if I visit your website, but I find marketing within an application too intrusive

No, the UAD software doesn't do that, don't worry.
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Re: UAD Apollo min spec seems high given it's DSP anyway (quad core i7)?

Postby redlester » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:04 pm

I’m not aware of any desktop plugins that do that?

Indeed, email marketing is fine because you can always just unsubscribe. And UAD do plenty of it.

The ones I find most annoying are Izotope and Waves, who both seem to have permanent “sales” on, a bit like DFS.
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