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controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby tipex » Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:47 pm

Hi there

trying to map controls, faders at this point, to logic in the x-touch midi mode - if I use the usual method of clicking on a fader, learn assignment and then going through, say, 8 tracks, all of the tracks move together as if they are all audio 1 - choosing 'audio' from the channels tip parameter dropdown and then numbering each fader 1,2, 3 etc, seems to solve this. But then in the next project, it will only be audio tracks that will be controlled by the x-touch faders - is this right? Do you need to set up different assignments for audio tracks, instrument tracks etc? From the tutorials on youtube etc, everyone just does learn assignment with no parameter changes

any help appreciated
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Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby The Elf » Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:50 pm

Forgive me if this is a red herring, but... wouldn't it be easier to set the X-Touch up as an MCU device - then Logic should just work (having told it you're using an MCU device) with no mapping required?

This is how I use it with my DAWs, but I'm not a Logic (or Mac) user.
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Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby desmond » Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:02 pm

Yes, that would be the way to go - there’s not much point figuring out how to map complex behaviour when it’s all already done for you...
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Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby tipex » Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:08 pm

yes, I could do that, but the mcu on the compact is quite limited , I want to be able to have user settings for faders and soft synths and plugins and such like
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Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby desmond » Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:19 pm

There are multiple User modes in the MCU/Logic, so you can still have it working as an MCU, then hit a button to enter a user mode, and set up whatever custom mappings you want.

Or you can implement your own modes system, but all of this stuff requires going deep into the weeds of how the MCU controller assignments and mapping system works, and it's not for everyone (my own MCU configurations are heavily customised, but it's not trivial to understand it and implement it properly, when you've going over and above a few simple custom assignments).

One last thing - while you're doing this, make good backups of working control surface preferences, as it's very easy to lose, corrupt, or break things...
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Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby The Elf » Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:24 pm

Similarly, I've spent a lot of time figuring out the MCU protocol to get it working with other software I have. Trying to use one control surface to do both this *and* custom mapping is really onerous - there are just so many variables. Go for it if you really want to, but I'll tell you that it will never work as well as you hope.
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Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby desmond » Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:28 pm

The Elf wrote:Similarly, I've spent a lot of time figuring out the MCU protocol to get it working with other software I have. Trying to use one control surface to do both this *and* custom mapping is really onerous - there are just so many variables. Go for it if you really want to, but I'll tell you that it will never work as well as you hope.

Works *great* for me though, I have the best custom control setup I've ever had, and actually, my real MCU's are boxed up and unused at the moment as they take up so much desk space.

But it took some efforts (and some years!) to get there, with many diversions, and controller assignment ratholes along the way...

tipex wrote:Thanks, unfortunately one of the limitations of the compact is it doesn't have Mackie user modes, not at least as far as I can see - there's no shift button to choose different modes

Think outside the box. Just because the buttons do one thing, doesn't mean they *have* to do that one thing. It's *all* controller assignments in Logic, and Logic exposes these to you and they can be changed. All User modes are for the MCU is some preconfigured empty modes that the MCU has buttons for that you can easily use to bung custom assignments in. But you can have as many Mode and Zones as you need to implement whatever you want.

Maybe some button you don't use much can be reassigned to do something else. A shift button is just a button that sends a MIDI message that triggers a learned controller assignment. It really depends on what your requirements are, and what buttons your hardware has and can be reassigned without losing other functionality you do want. But the above comment suggests you're not really up on how the whole controller assignments, modes and zones work - start there.

Maybe you have a different bit of MIDI hardware - use that for changing modes - assignments can be recognised from any MIDI source, doesn't have to be on that one controller. Seriously - think outside the box, and experiment to find what works for you - no one else can do this for you.
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Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby tipex » Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:48 pm

Thanks, unfortunately one of the limitations of the compact is it doesn't have Mackie user modes, not at least as far as I can see - there's no shift button to choose different modes
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Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby tipex » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:13 pm

Thanks, that's encouraging. So you mean that, for example in the xtouch full version you can press shift - instrument, and that allows you to assign smart controls - I could set that up with the compact in Mackie mode?
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Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby The Elf » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:14 pm

tipex wrote:Thanks, unfortunately one of the limitations of the compact is it doesn't have Mackie user modes, not at least as far as I can see - there's no shift button to choose different modes
It uses the standard Mackie Universal protocol.

Universal Control

Today’s DAWs, instruments, effects and lighting applications are designed to interface with controllers that enable users to make high-precision changes with minimal effort. Built-in Mackie Control* emulation allows your X-TOUCH COMPACT to work with virtually any professional audio production software imaginable – as soon as you take it from the box – no setup required!
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Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby tipex » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:24 pm

not sure what you mean here, yes the compact uses the mackie protocol, but it doesn't have the same functions at the full version - desmond is suggesting that that doesn't matter, just wondering how you can get that same functioning with the compact
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Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby desmond » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:47 pm

All a controller is as a MIDI device that sends MIDI messages, which get interpreted by Logic's controller assignments to give you the desired behaviour.

As the controller assignments are freely editable, you can do more or less what you want (as long as it's supported by Logic).

Very few devices support the full range of what the actual MCU units can do in Logic, especially when it comes to plugin control, but also other things, but, depending on what buttons and features you have on your controller, there's nothing stopping you changing or extending their behaviour, if you want to get in that deep (it's not for everybody, and is certainly not a casual-user thing - you need to be able to investigate, understand, troubleshoot and test etc).

But you have all the information you need to start having a look at how stuff works, and trying things out, and starting to understand how it works, and then how best to implement what it is you want to implement. :thumbup:
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Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby tipex » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:59 pm

Ok, great, thanks. The impression I got was that MCU was not an editable system, apart from user mode, I'll have a look at what's possible in the MCU assignments in logic
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Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby tipex » Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:52 pm

Hi again,

Getting around it a bit more now, but finding an issue when in standard midi mode, that if I use the rotary controls to midi learn say, the controls on a soft synth, it will often say that the control is already assigned when I haven't assigned it to anything else. I've found that what its referring to is the mackie mapping, so say a vpot will still be controlling a pan when I'm not actually in mackie mode. If I click 'keep both' on the pop up, it will sort of control the soft synth parameter, but will also control a pan, if I click 'reassign' it will just all get messed up.

If I delete the mackie control, and just use standard midi mode, and map controls, all will work fine.

It seems that the standard midi mode needs to be separated somehow from the mackie mode. Anyone have any idea what I might do here?

grateful for any input on this - thanks
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Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby desmond » Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:00 pm

Do you mean your controller has a different mode to an MCU-supporting mode? If so, what MIDI port does it send on?

If it's a well-implemented controller, it should send one mode on a completely different MIDI port to the other mode (my little Novation Launch Control XL does this, for instance) - it sends on one port for HUI mode, and another port for standard mode (which I'm using for all the custom MCU stuff in my controller scheme.) so I can have both setup in Logic and the correct one will respond depending on what active mode the controller is in.

If they both send on the same MIDI port, then think about it from Logic's point if view - it doesn't know or care about what "mode" your controller is in - it just sees an incoming MIDI message, and matches it to any learned rule that matches that same MIDI message on that same MIDI port. And these may well clash if you are using the same MIDI messages between two different control surface setups (manual, and MCU).

If you can't separate by port, and your controller lets you edit the MIDI messages it sends, you might need to change the MIDI messages it sends in the standard mode to avoid clashing with any messages the MCU-units send.

This is really all part of troubleshooting and understanding how this stuff works, and a good MIDI monitor program to inspect messages will help.
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