You are here

controller assignments x-touch compact

For current or would-be users of Apple Mac computers, with answers to many FAQs.

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby tipex » Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:22 pm

thanks for the quick reply desmond. Yes, it has two separate modes, either MCU or standard midi, which you can choose when the turn the unit on. I think you're correct it must be something to do with the the midi ports - all I can see is that in the audio-midi set up of the iMac, the compact is set to midi port 1, and so far I don't see how you can change that, or set up a new port

When you're setting up the compact with logic, the only set up you're instructed to do it to set it up in mackie control, choosing the x-touch as output port and input port.

There's no other set up indicated for when in standard midi mode, but logic does see it connected and as I say, it works fine as a dumb midi controller, but only with mackie control deleted.

there is an editor for the compact, where you can change the cc messages, and on that there is a button saying Global, which is set to channel 2, but not sure if that is where I need to change things

not really sure where I can go from here, but very grateful for the info
tipex
Regular
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:00 am

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby desmond » Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:31 pm

Like I say, if the X-Touch only transmits on one MIDI port, regardless of which mode you select, then you'll have to find a way to keep your own custom messages from interfering with the MCU messages if that's the way you are going (rather than integrating your new controller behaviour into the existing MCU handling as discussed above), either by changing the messages sent by the controls, or some other method.

I can't really help you reverse engineer the messages your controller is sending and how to best set up the system you want - you'll just need to figure this stuff out for yourself as this stuff is deeply dependent on your hardware and your needs.

Like I said earlier, this kind of stuff is not for everybody, not everybody has the patience or investigative interest to dive deep into this stuff. I guess you'll find out which type of person you are in the process... ;) :thumbup:

If you want to just keep things simple, I'd suggest to either stick with the facilities the controller already has implemented in MCU mode, or use it as a generic MIDI controller with manual assignments.
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10133
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby tipex » Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:44 pm

Indeed, thanks again. Does seem like it might be a fault with the unit though, as you say your keyboard does both with no problem, and I imagine all of the controllers that can utilise mackie control also function as midi controllers like yours - there's nothing I've seen searching around the net with a similar conflict - will get in touch with behringer, although so far it seems they don't really know much about their products!
tipex
Regular
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:00 am

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby desmond » Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:55 pm

tipex wrote:Does seem like it might be a fault with the unit though,

A fault? No, just a design choice.

tipex wrote:as you say your keyboard does both with no problem, and I imagine all of the controllers that can utilise mackie control also function as midi controllers like yours

It doesn't mean they all send on different ports in different modes, it's just a good feature that it does, for this particular (niche) use case. If my little controller didn't, it wouldn't be a massive problem for me - I'd just integrate the regular non-plugin control related stuff into my control system - in fact I was originally planning on doing just that. But because the HUI mode works mostly great, I didn't have to, so that was a quick win for my needs.

tipex wrote: there's nothing I've seen searching around the net with a similar conflict - will get in touch with behringer, although so far it seems they don't really know much about their products!

I don't think they are going to help you design a custom control surface in Logic to your needs. Seriously - this is something that you'll need to figure out and implement yourself, or just use the controllers as they were designed for regular mixer stuff. And implementing it yourself is non-trivial (which I think I've been pointing out throughout the thread).

Or, of course you could buy a more sophisticated controller that already has plugin control implemented, rather than trying to bend a simpler/cheaper one to do more than it was designed to do.
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10133
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby tipex » Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:25 pm

interesting, so the compact was really only designed for mackie control and the midi side is more a bespoke thing, not just a standard midi learn feature like you have with most controllers
tipex
Regular
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:00 am

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby desmond » Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:48 pm

tipex wrote:interesting, so the compact was really only designed for mackie control and the midi side is more a bespoke thing, not just a standard midi learn feature like you have with most controllers

These kind of control surfaces typically have two modes - one that you can use as a general purpose generic MIDI controller for anything, and one to integrate with DAWs to offer some kind of behavioural control without user-setup that's useful - typically - channel levels/mute/solo/pan, banking between sets of 8 channels, and possibly transport control - that lets people do useful things without having to start with a blank template and figuring out how to set up this kind of thing themselves. MCU and/or HUI modes are common as they are well supported by most DAWs.

It's all MIDI, either way, and in the standard mode, you can use whatever MIDI messages you want in whatever way you want - if you want to MIDI learn to individual plugins, you can do so (but I find generic general purpose MIDI controllers next to useless for anything other than setting up key commands, who the heck wants to manually map all their plugins..?)
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10133
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby The Elf » Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:53 pm

As I said way above, use it either as MCU, or as a MIDI controller, but trying to do both is going to be a world of pain. I've been here many times...
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 14882
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby tipex » Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:28 pm

Thanks elf, so maybe I just need to delete Mackie control if I want to set up something specific. I did see some stuff about having virtual midi ports that might stop this conflict. Behringer say it should just work in standard mode as advertised, and must be a logic thing. Thanks again
tipex
Regular
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:00 am

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby desmond » Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:09 pm

If you just want to use it as a standard generic MIDI controller and manually map everything, then yes, you are not using it as an MCU and should remove the control surface setup in Logic.

After all this, I'm still not clear on exactly what you are trying to do, but I've tried to explain how these controllers work, and specifically how Logic handles them, and given as much help as I can based on my experiences but if you're still not clear on things, perhaps I'm the wrong person to try to help...
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10133
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby tipex » Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:33 pm

Not at all, you've been very helpful. All I want to do mainly is have specific mapping to softsynths while in standard midi.
tipex
Regular
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:00 am

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby desmond » Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:40 pm

tipex wrote:Not at all, you've been very helpful. All I want to do mainly is have specific mapping to softsynths while in standard midi.

In that case then, stay in standard mode, remove the MCU device from your control surface setup window if it's there (to remove MCU handling), and then just use controller assignments and/or standard MIDI learn in the plugins to manually map specific controls to specific plugin parameters.
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10133
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby tipex » Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:09 pm

Thanks, yes seems to be the only way, weird though that you have to reinstall MCU every time you want to use it
tipex
Regular
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:00 am

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby desmond » Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:25 pm

tipex wrote:Thanks, yes seems to be the only way, weird though that you have to reinstall MCU every time you want to use it

Presumably, if the controller is not in MCU mode, it shouldn't respond to MCU device inquiry messages, and thus Logic shouldn't detect and install it as a control surface. I don't use that controller, but maybe check your manual, perhaps...?
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10133
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby tipex » Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:55 pm

well yes, that's why I thought there may be something wrong with the unit, or something messed up with its default mapping - but reset to factory settings doesn't cure it. There isn't an extensive manual for the x-touch, just a quick start, most people have been using the logic pro 9 control surface manual which covers most things, but I couldn't find anything to address this issue.

Might need to try it with another DAW to see if I get the same behaviour, least I'd know it was a logic thing, or possibly the hardware itself
tipex
Regular
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:00 am

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

Postby The Elf » Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:22 pm

Are you absolutely sure that you don't have the X-Touch in MCU mode? The MCU messages are very specific, and a lot of them are MIDI note messages - I can't see how you could be sending normal MIDI CC messages, yet still activating controls (or being told you're duplicating messages) that are looking for MCU messages.

I certainly wouldn't remove MCU compatibility from Logic. At some point you will want basic mixer and transport controls and you will have taken all that functionality away!

As Desmond has said, it could be time to start investigating exactly what messages you're seeing coming in from the X-Touch.
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 14882
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

PreviousNext