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controller assignments x-touch compact

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Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:10 pm
by desmond
tipex wrote:the cc / value that is sent when I midi learn is the same as the mackie control cc / value for pan for each of those rotary's - the other rotary's don't have this doubling up (touch wood).

What CC's is it using for those by default? Is it CC 10 (MIDI Pan)? If so, then yes change them to something less defined in the MIDI spec.

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:23 pm
by tipex
no, it's 18 - 25.

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:34 pm
by The Elf
Get a spreadsheet going and begin noting what responses you're getting from controller numbers. I've had to be VERY organised with controllers and channel numbers to avoid conflicts in my own live performance system.

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:36 pm
by desmond
tipex wrote:no, it's 18 - 25.

Then those things won't control anything in Logic if you have no controller assignments setup and nothing in the control surfaces setup window.

If you're turning a CC18 knob and it's panning a channel, you most likely still have some remnants of the control surface assignments installed that's doing it and haven't deleted/removed these from Logic.

Maybe it's time to quit Logic, trash your preference files (both the main prefs and the control surface prefs) to reset Logic back to a known clean state and try again?

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:41 pm
by desmond
The Elf wrote:Get a spreadsheet going and begin noting what responses you're getting from controller numbers. I've had to be VERY organised with controllers and channel numbers to avoid conflicts in my own live performance system.

In Logic, if you're not using controller assignments to handle MIDI, then all incoming MIDI gets routed to the instrument on the selected track, with the exception of CC7 and 10 which the channel fader and pan responds to (there is a project setting for this these days though, so you can turn it off if necessary.)

But the only way CC 18 is going to control a channel pan is if you have some controller assignment that's mapping this, so you likely have former assignments you need to clear out (trashing the preferences will do this in one go.)

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:58 pm
by tipex
yes, I've trashed the preferences many times - there aren't any other assignments lurking around. I can see it in controller assignments in real time, I assign something to a knob and when you turn that knob it'll go to a mackie assignment for a Vpot

thing is, this behaviour should really be happening in the first place should it - I'm not in mackie control, I'm in standard midi

I'm trying to get someone with a compact to confirm if this happens with their machine - behringer don't have access to one apparently!

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:13 pm
by desmond
tipex wrote:yes, I've trashed the preferences many times - there aren't any other assignments lurking around. I can see it in controller assignments in real time, I assign something to a knob and when you turn that knob it'll go to a mackie assignment for a Vpot

You understand that if you can see it's going to an assignment for a mackie vpot, then *you have controller assignments in Logic* (you can see them, right there in the controller assignments window!) and you need to *delete them* using the procedures I've already outlined.

tipex wrote:thing is, this behaviour should really be happening in the first place should it - I'm not in mackie control, I'm in standard midi

Because you haven't deleted the control surface from Logic as instructed, and there are still unnecessary control surface assignments in Logic that are confusing you in creating your standard non-MCU related mappings.

You need to trash your preferences and make sure you have no controller assignments in Logic. Zero. Logic should not know there was ever an MCU connected.

Or you can check "Bypass all control surfaces" as a quick way of stopping those assignments responding, if you don't want to remove them.

If you absolutely want to keep the installed MCU assignments, on the same port as your standard assignments, it's going to be tricky as you're going to need to manually edit your control surface to make sure it doesn't send *any* MIDI messages that the MCU uses (which means manually checking all of them).

All of this *is* possible, but it requires some effort and attention to detail that you'll need to work through. As has already been said by both myself and the Elf, it's easier just to stick to one mode, and not try and use both at once, particularly if the detail of getting that working is going to be tricky.

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:24 pm
by tipex
not sure what you mean desmond - I've said that the mapping works fine if the mcu is deleted, but surely that's not how it should work, so I'm trying to find out if that's the only way it can work, and if so, I'll be sending it back

I did try editing the mackie control parameters at one point and all that did was mess up the mcu once you were back in mackie control mode, so I'd have to delete the cs prefs to get it back to normal - I would think deleting mcu prefs to try to get it to work will do the same thing, and anyway, I just want to map things as you would with an ordinary controller without the mackie mappings having anything to do with it

the compact is supposed to do mcu and standard midi - if it doesn't then its not what I want

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:34 pm
by desmond
tipex wrote:I've said that the mapping works fine if the mcu is deleted

That's what I thought you were trying to set up - using it in standard mode.

tipex wrote:but surely that's not how it should work,

That's an assumption, based on not understanding how these things, and this particular controller *does* work. I'm fairly sure that the manufacturer will suggest you choose one or the other mode, and trying to get both working at once is beyond what they intended. Particularly in that you can't just easily switch between modes with a button (like on my Novation), you have to turn the controller *off* and back on to switch modes is a bit of a clue...

tipex wrote:I did try editing the mackie control parameters at one point and all that did was mess up the mcu once you were back in mackie control mode, so I'd have to delete the cs prefs to get it back to normal - I would think deleting mcu prefs to try to get it to work will do the same thing, and anyway, I just want to map things as you would with an ordinary controller without the mackie mappings having anything to do with it

I feel I've explained this so many times now.

tipex wrote:the compact is supposed to do mcu and standard midi

Yes. But pretty sure it's not designed to do both at once, hence all the trouble you're having trying to do something custom and reasonably complicated.

If you really want to get this working, so you can have assignments present in Logic for both MCU modes, and standard mode, you need to make sure that in standard mode no control sends any MIDI message that would be interpreted as an existing MCU assignment. So you need to edit the MIDI messages the controllers sends in standard mode to make sure no MIDI messages are being sent that would look like MCU ones.

Then with the controls sending non-conflicting messages, you learn those manually to what you want.

All of this is because the commands can't be differentiated by MIDI port with this hardware, so you have to make sure they are differentiated by MIDI message.

I think you've exhausted all the help I have on this topic now - everything has already been covered multiple times in the thread, so good luck, and post back if/when you've got it all working... good luck. :thumbup:

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:01 pm
by tipex
yes, it doesn't look like it's possible to use it in standard midi mode without having to contend with many mackie mappings already in place

I'm going to establish if this is expected behaviour and if so, return it

thanks very much for all your help

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:46 pm
by tipex
Just to update this, the solution seems to be that when in standard midi mode you need to have the ports in control surface set up to: Output: Any Input: All. Then it doesn't conflict with the Mackie mapping. You don't need to alter things in the editor

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:21 pm
by desmond
tipex wrote:Just to update this, the solution seems to be that when in standard midi mode you need to have the ports in control surface set up to: Output: Any Input: All. Then it doesn't conflict with the Mackie mapping. You don't need to alter things in the editor

That just means it matches incoming MIDI messages from any MIDI port, rather than just the control surface MIDI port, which is usually not what you want, as MIDI inputs from that control surface will only come from the MIDI port that control surface is sending on. You don't generally want a MIDI message coming in from another MIDI device to start triggering Logic in strange ways (unless you're doing something like this intentionally, but that's outside the scope of this for now.)

I can't see how that would make a difference, but without specifics it's impossible to guess or tell you what's going on. Do you know definitely what MIDI port a message comes in with the controller in standard mode, and the MIDI port a message comes in in MCU mode? Are they the same, or different?

(Use the controller assignments in learn mode to tell you, or use something like Snoize's MIDI Monitor or MIDI pipe).

Because if they *do* come in on different ports (which is the ideal scenario, and what I discussed early in the thread) then that's good for your needs. If they *don't*, and both messages arrive on the same MIDI port, then it won't matter whether your assignments are set to listen to that MIDI port, or *any* MIDI port, as the end result is exactly the same. I thought we'd previously established there is only one MIDI port from the controller, and that port is used regardless of what mode the controller is in - and if this is the case, all you need to do (as previously said) is make sure you are sending different messages to the ones sent in MCU mode, and stuff won't interfere.

If you want to troubleshoot this though, you'll need to be specific with what messages you are using by example, and what your controller assignments are, as it's very difficult to advise otherwise, as the details are important.

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:24 pm
by tipex
Hi Desmond, I found this looking around at users of other daw's than logic, cubase and ardour have a setting for ' generic midi' device, and this seems to be the equivalent in logic. In this set up, everything works as expected in the standard mode, mapping etc, and the faders still respond to automation. I can switch to Mackie control just by switching the ports to x- touch in and out, and there aren't any conflicts between the two modes.

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:39 pm
by desmond
Well, it's not clear to me what you're doing at all, your descriptions are too vague for me to understand exactly what you've done on what device where etc (or for anyone else visiting this thread in the future who might be encountering the same problem), but if you've arrived at a solution that works for you, even if you're not really sure what's going on under the hood, then that's fair enough. :thumbup:

Re: controller assignments x-touch compact

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:55 pm
by tipex
I just want to use it according to its specification, which is both Mackie control and user defined standard midi - this set up gives me that