You are here

Old OSX on new Mac

For current or would-be users of Apple Mac computers, with answers to many FAQs.

Old OSX on new Mac

Postby peterloo » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:24 pm

Is it possible to run Snow Leopard on a new Mac? I knew my setup inside out on my old Mac which worked really well for me with virtually no updates until it died last year.

I'd like to run Logic 9 and 32bit plug ins and I have a 2018 Mac mini running the latest version of Catalina and I find Logic X annoying.

Sorry if it has been asked before, any help would be much appreciated.\
peterloo
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:00 am

Re: Old OSX on new Mac

Postby desmond » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:27 pm

peterloo wrote:Is it possible to run Snow Leopard on a new Mac?

No.

peterloo wrote:I'd like to run Logic 9 and 32bit plug ins and I have a 2018 Mac mini running the latest version of Catalina and I find Logic X annoying.

You'd have to get an older Mac capable of running El Capitan.
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10553
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: Old OSX on new Mac

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:04 pm

With Macs it is usually impossible to run an OS earlier than the one the computer shipped with when it was first released so if you Mac was originally shipped with Mojave but you bought it a few months after release and it had Catalina installed you should be able to install Mojave but El Capitan will not have the drivers to support the latest hardware and Macs are much less flexible than Windoze machines in that respect. Windows is much less flexible than it was too though and I doubt I could run my favourite Windows OS, Win XP, on a modern machine either.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 13864
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Old OSX on new Mac

Postby peterloo » Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:25 pm

desmond wrote:
peterloo wrote:Is it possible to run Snow Leopard on a new Mac?

No.

peterloo wrote:I'd like to run Logic 9 and 32bit plug ins and I have a 2018 Mac mini running the latest version of Catalina and I find Logic X annoying.

You'd have to get an older Mac capable of running El Capitan.


Bugger thought that was the case. Thanks for the reply
peterloo
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:00 am

Re: Old OSX on new Mac

Postby peterloo » Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:26 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:With Macs it is usually impossible to run an OS earlier than the one the computer shipped with when it was first released so if you Mac was originally shipped with Mojave but you bought it a few months after release and it had Catalina installed you should be able to install Mojave but El Capitan will not have the drivers to support the latest hardware and Macs are much less flexible than Windoze machines in that respect. Windows is much less flexible than it was too though and I doubt I could run my favourite Windows OS, Win XP, on a modern machine either.

I have a MacBook Air from 2014 never updated that I use for work, looks like I'll have to use that with logic 9. Thanks for the reply and saving me the pain of trying.
peterloo
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:00 am

Re: Old OSX on new Mac

Postby desmond » Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:32 pm

What are the specific things you dislike about LPX that make you want to return to LP9? (other than it being a bit different, interface-wise in general).
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10553
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: Old OSX on new Mac

Postby Uncle Freddie » Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:07 pm

peterloo wrote:Is it possible to run Snow Leopard on a new Mac? I knew my setup inside out on my old Mac which worked really well for me with virtually no updates until it died last year.

I'd like to run Logic 9 and 32bit plug ins and I have a 2018 Mac mini running the latest version of Catalina and I find Logic X annoying.

Sorry if it has been asked before, any help would be much appreciated.\



No, it is not possible to run Mac OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard) on any new Mac. Apple purposely disables installing any OS older than the one the machine shipped with. As an example, you could install Snow Leopard on a machine that shipped with Leopard, but you could not install Snow Leopard on a machine that shipped with Lion.


But you do have some options:

Option 1, the ideal: buy a used Mac on eBay that was manufactured at around the same time as the one that died. This would be the most straightforward solution and you could be back in the saddle like nothing happened. This is what I would do.

According to this app MacTracker that I swear by, (https://mactracker.ca or https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mactracke ... 5202?mt=12) the last Mac mini (non-server) that shipped with Snow Leopard was the Mac mini (Mid 2010).

Image
Image




Option 2. Less than ideal, but might work on a new Mac: buy a virtualization app like VMware Fusion, create a virtual machine in the app, and on that virtual machine, install Snow Leopard. There are a number of gotchas to this approach, though:

Running music applications on a VM is probably asking for trouble.

You unfortunately would need to find a DVD of Snow Leopard Server, because Apple's virtual machine licensing rules prohibit the client version from being installed onto a virtual machine. (C'mon, Apple.)

Here are some details on the VM approach: https://www.lifewire.com/virtualization ... on-2260946
Uncle Freddie
Poster
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:00 am
Location: Detroit, USA

Re: Old OSX on new Mac

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:33 pm

Uncle Freddie wrote:You unfortunately would need to find a DVD of Snow Leopard Server, because Apple's virtual machine licensing rules prohibit the client version from being installed onto a virtual machine. (C'mon, Apple.)

I don't think that's been true for a while. I've certainly virtualised OsX 10.11 with Logic 9 installed to run under Fusion without problem. Back in the day Leopard wouldn't virtualise without some fairly hefty hacking but Apple's licences have permitted it since Snow Leopard providing the underlying hardware was also Apple.

Here's Vmware on the subject.

CC
User avatar
ConcertinaChap
Jedi Poster
Posts: 9193
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Bradford on Avon
Making music: Eagle Alley, recording music: Mr Punch's Studio
A full wine rack is a happy wine rack.
 

Re: Old OSX on new Mac

Postby desmond » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:39 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:Apple's licences have permitted it since Snow Leopard providing the underlying hardware was also Apple.

Here's Vmware on the subject.

Yeee-ees, but if you read that link, you'll see that Snow Leopard (non-server) is *not* permitted, and therefore not supported.
From memory, you have to do slightly naughty things to get Snow Leopard regular version to run in a VM...

Code: Select all
According to Apple's licensing policies, VMware only supports the virtualization of Apple Mac OS X 10.10 (Yosemite) client or server, Apple Mac OS X 10.11 (El Capitan) client or server, Mac OS X 10.9 (Mavericks) client or server, Mac OS X 10.8 (Mountain Lion) client or server, Mac OS X 10.7 (Lion) client or server, 10.6 (Snow Leopard) server and 10.5 (Leopard) server.


Later versions, Apple explicitly let people virtualise, as long as they had the rights to use OSX (ie, had bought a Mac it ran on.) but Snow Leopard, you never could, which is why it's tricky.

I'm sure Apple don't really care, given that they happy for people do virtualise later versions, but there may have been specific licensing or legal technicalities that meant they could never officially let Snow Leopard be virtualised - or maybe it just fell through the cracks and they don't really care.
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10553
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: Old OSX on new Mac

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:07 pm

Actually you're right, as ever. I'd forgotten that back in the day I'd had to write a shell script that set a flag at the right moment during startup to cause Snow Leopard to believe it was legit and finish loading. It's not a route I would recommend because it was a bit unstable and subject to race conditions.

Anyway later versions of OSX and MacOs are fine.

CC
User avatar
ConcertinaChap
Jedi Poster
Posts: 9193
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Bradford on Avon
Making music: Eagle Alley, recording music: Mr Punch's Studio
A full wine rack is a happy wine rack.
 

Re: Old OSX on new Mac

Postby Howdy Doody Time » Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:32 am

desmond wrote:What are the specific things you dislike about LPX that make you want to return to LP9? (other than it being a bit different, interface-wise in general).

I don't like tripe. I couldn't really say exactly why. in this case the clue might be in the "a bit different" bit.

The OP is willing to go to some length to continue with LP9, so I'd say he has valid reasons.
User avatar
Howdy Doody Time
Frequent Poster
Posts: 629
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:00 am
Location: Huai Yai, Chon Buri, Siam
The only excuse we have for making music in the first place is to make it differently..vis-a-vis our own difference (Glenn Gould)

Re: Old OSX on new Mac

Postby Dave B » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:53 am

(late again .. )

Just for completeness, I happily installed Snow Leopard into a VirtualBox (=free) instance and, whilst it isn't good enough performance to work, it does allow me to run an old version of Cubase to export old projects. I also used it to run the outdated Fantom X series editor / librarian software when I had one of those.

Just saying..
User avatar
Dave B
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5642
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Maidenhead
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi (I came, I saw, I conkered)

Re: Old OSX on new Mac

Postby desmond » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:09 pm

Howdy Doody Time wrote:The OP is willing to go to some length to continue with LP9, so I'd say he has valid reasons.

If you’re implying that I think his reasons are not valid, that would be an incorrect assumption. I’m interested in what his reasons are, given that I have a pretty good experience of both options.

In *some* cases, some people’s assumptions are incorrect (hypothetical: I don’t want to upgrade because the new version doesn’t do X - when it in fact does).

Most of these reasons usually boil down to some combination of familiarity and compatibility, and I expect that’s the case here. But sometimes there are specific reasons, and as a Logic user, those specific (valid) reasons are interesting to know, and to see whether there are solutions for, should I come across other people in a similar place.
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10553
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: Old OSX on new Mac

Postby Howdy Doody Time » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:40 pm

desmond wrote:
Howdy Doody Time wrote:The OP is willing to go to some length to continue with LP9, so I'd say he has valid reasons.

If you’re implying that I think his reasons are not valid, that would be an incorrect assumption. I’m interested in what his reasons are, given that I have a pretty good experience of both options.

In *some* cases, some people’s assumptions are incorrect (hypothetical: I don’t want to upgrade because the new version doesn’t do X - when it in fact does).

Most of these reasons usually boil down to some combination of familiarity and compatibility, and I expect that’s the case here. But sometimes there are specific reasons, and as a Logic user, those specific (valid) reasons are interesting to know, and to see whether there are solutions for, should I come across other people in a similar place.

Good point (which I missed entirely) I read it as being a little condescending. I put it down to the hour (which was early) and the realization that most of my own problems were in fact down to shoddy hubs, and went away as soon as I bought some decent ones, and so I was annoyed at myself more than anything. I do apologize.
User avatar
Howdy Doody Time
Frequent Poster
Posts: 629
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:00 am
Location: Huai Yai, Chon Buri, Siam
The only excuse we have for making music in the first place is to make it differently..vis-a-vis our own difference (Glenn Gould)

Re: Old OSX on new Mac

Postby desmond » Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:25 pm

No worries, just wanted to clear that up. :thumbup:
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10553
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio