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New Macs

For current or would-be users of Apple Mac computers, with answers to many FAQs.

Re: New Macs

Postby desmond » Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:27 pm

johnny h wrote:There is absolutely zero evidence this is the case!

Apple do plenty enough wrong, lets not make up spurious facts to bash them with!

Apple *told* us this happens in the event, by differentiating the fan-equipped new 13" MBP as saying the fan means it can use that performance for sustained workflows - the clear implication being that the non-fan-equipped Air, *cannot* use that performance for sustained periods (we don't yet know what "sustained periods" means exactly but it *does* mean that there will be throttling.)

This stuff will become clear as people get, and test machines, of course, but it seems clear to everyone paying attention than the Air will throttle to maintain it's thermal envelope if it has to, depending on the workload.
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Re: New Macs

Postby Eddy Deegan » Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:41 pm

I applaud the technical innovation and if I was Apple I would be seriously pleased with how well it has turned out. I also hope that similar technology emerges for use in non-Apple products as it's been clear for a while now that there are better solutions than the historical Intel dominance, as demonstrated by AMD.

One thing about the Apple silicon that does concern me in a wider sense is their desire to control things post-sale and with the power to design the chips however they want I fear it will only be a matter of time (if it's not happened already) before they embed features into it that reflect the aggressive 'us or nobody' technology that is already evident in the iPhone 12 which is so locked down you can't even take the the camera from a brand new Apple phone and put it in another.

Good technology should be admired, and there is no doubt that Apple are good at technology but I dread a future where the tactics revealed in the above video apply to everything. To me that is dystopian and the implications are genuinely worrying on privacy, economic and environmental fronts.

I hope I'm wrong, but I fear my worries are not unfounded.
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Re: New Macs

Postby getrichs » Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:58 pm

Must admit I’m tempted by one of the new M1 mac minis, to replace my 2012 quad core macmini - but which audio interfaces would work with it? Pretty sure the Tascam 16x08 I use wouldn’t, as I seem to recall it required a driver to be installed ... But I guess anything “Core Audio” would work?
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Re: New Macs

Postby RichardT » Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:58 pm

Eddy Deegan wrote:I applaud the technical innovation and if I was Apple I would be seriously pleased with how well it has turned out. I also hope that similar technology emerges for use in non-Apple products as it's been clear for a while now that there are better solutions than the historical Intel dominance, as demonstrated by AMD.

One thing about the Apple silicon that does concern me in a wider sense is their desire to control things post-sale and with the power to design the chips however they want I fear it will only be a matter of time (if it's not happened already) before they embed features into it that reflect the aggressive 'us or nobody' technology that is already evident in the iPhone 12 which is so locked down you can't even take the the camera from a brand new Apple phone and put it in another.

Good technology should be admired, and there is no doubt that Apple are good at technology but I dread a future where the tactics revealed in the above video apply to everything. To me that is dystopian and the implications are genuinely worrying on privacy, economic and environmental fronts.

I hope I'm wrong, but I fear my worries are not unfounded.

It depends on whether the ‘open’ competitors can keep up - let’s hope they can!
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Re: New Macs

Postby Dave B » Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:33 am

MOF wrote:I’ve looked at the prices and you pay £200 less for the new M1 version and that’s compared to the i5 chip, you save a further £200 if you compare it to the i7.
I based this on 16GB RAM (maximum available on M1) and 1TB SSD

Mof, you are half right .. :)

Apple don't spec an Intel Mini with a 256Gb SSD, so you have to spec an M1 mini with the 512Gb to match the lowest Intel. At this point, you are adding 200 for the 16Gb Ram and 200 for the increased SSD capacity, making the M1 Mini 1099. With the Intel, I'd have to spend an additional 54quid on Crucial RAM to take it up to 16Gb so, yes, I'd spend more, but I'd have the option of choosing my Ram and I could sell / gift the existing 8Gb to recoup either money or karma points (as I did earlier in the year).

:D

So I'd spend about 50 quid more your way. But I'd be narked because I think that the increased drive size is a bit of a con as well. I don't _need_ a bigger drive - the only reason that I've used more than 256Gb on this Mini I'm typing on is because I have a bunch of VM images on it. If I was more ruthless and archived them properly - and moved some audio / video files to the right machine - then I'd have oodles of space.. And if I need more, I can add it with external drives, or, better still, cloud storage.

Ok, I take the point that there's not a big difference. But Apple aren't playing a straight bat either.
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Re: New Macs

Postby MOF » Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:56 am

Apple don't spec an Intel Mini with a 256Gb SSD, so you have to spec an M1 mini with the 512Gb to match the lowest Intel.

I couldn’t manage with 256GB, I bought an i7 iMac a few years ago with a 512GB SSD and really wish I’d gone for 1TB.
By the time all the programs, my e-mails, some libraries which can’t be stored on a separate drive
and some recent songs I’m working on are loaded up there’s not a lot of space left.
I used to run with very little spare space on my previous iMac but that lack of virtual RAM space caused problems so I don’t do that now.
Have you considered that maybe the speed of 8GB on-chip RAM and the speed of the M1 cpu might be faster than the Intel chip and 16GB of separate RAM and therefore cheaper? The benchmark figures I’ve been reading suggest this might be the case.
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Re: New Macs

Postby miN2 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:19 am

At least you don't have to upgrade the storage if you upgrade the RAM amount, something that other companies do (Microsoft, Razer), which is so annoying.

I love the idea of the M1 as it's likely gonna solve the cooling problem that macs have basically been facing since Haswell, which is excellent. Has certainly put macs back on the map for me once they increase their memory limit to at least 32GB.
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Re: New Macs

Postby redlester » Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:38 pm

All very interesting and quite exciting in a nerdy way. But I was immediately disappointed by the Mac Mini in that it only has two USB and two Thunderbolt ports (the Intel one has two and four respectively). This is just not enough and I hope the higher spec models in future have more connectivity.
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Re: New Macs

Postby desmond » Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:20 pm

redlester wrote:All very interesting and quite exciting in a nerdy way. But I was immediately disappointed by the Mac Mini in that it only has two USB and two Thunderbolt ports (the Intel one has two and four respectively). This is just not enough and I hope the higher spec models in future have more connectivity.

This seems to be a limitation of the initial M1 configuration, and is why all the current M1 machines have these limitations.

We'll see an M1X or different config for the more powerful machines, and I expect a higher-end Mac Mini using that config too next year.
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Re: New Macs

Postby TheLegit » Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:11 pm

The Mac Mini M1 lower pricing is a refreshing change from Apple, you'd think they'd take the opportunity to price gouge the customer with the tech but they haven't... sadly max 16GB RAM is a big no no
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Re: New Macs

Postby CS70 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:20 pm

ManFromGlass wrote:What an interesting concept. Build a machine that is stinkin’ fast and way ahead of the competition. Except it can’t sustain a heavy workload.

Worked quite ok for Tesla :bouncy:
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Re: New Macs

Postby MOF » Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:43 pm

sadly max 16GB RAM is a big no no

I don’t think you can compare 16GB RAM and an Intel cpu with the M1 and 16GB of integrated RAM.
They (cpu and RAM) work together to pass on their calculations for storage and sending on to the audio interface/graphics card etc. If the speed is so much faster then the need for more RAM is negated.
I might be shown to be wrong of course.
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Re: New Macs

Postby Agharta » Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:15 pm

MOF wrote:
sadly max 16GB RAM is a big no no

I don’t think you can compare 16GB RAM and an Intel cpu with the M1 and 16GB of integrated RAM.
They (cpu and RAM) work together to pass on their calculations for storage and sending on to the audio interface/graphics card etc. If the speed is so much faster then the need for more RAM is negated.
I might be shown to be wrong of course.
Being integrated in itself doesn't tell you anything about performance.
It's usually done to allow a smaller form factor.
If Apple where using a new and faster type of RAM chips it's likely they would have me mentioned this.
The main candidate would be DDR5 but it seems too early for a low power and low profile variant of that.
So expect it to be the same or very similar to what Intel use with their latest laptop CPUs. That's still fast though.

The Unified memory architecture is more significant, but only for workloads that require say both the CPU and GPU to process the same data.
For current audio software this might well not be significant.
That's why they focused on video apps in their presentation.
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Re: New Macs

Postby redlester » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:42 pm

They need to clarify the RAM issue for those of us who want to use it for large RAM-guzzling sample libraries, where 64GB or ideally 128GB is considered essential for “serious” users, on the current Intel platform. We need to know how it equates to the new integrated RAM.

Am sure all this will become clear over the next couple of years, which is how long I will leave it before even considering diving in.
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Re: New Macs

Postby desmond » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:52 pm

redlester wrote:They need to clarify the RAM issue for those of us who want to use it for large RAM-guzzling sample libraries, where 64GB or ideally 128GB is considered essential for “serious” users, on the current Intel platform. We need to know how it equates to the new integrated RAM.

Remember, so far, only the *low end* machines have been released. These are small, light, very capable machines designed for everyday people - not so much for people running orchestral movie score mockups with 400 tracks and 100GB of samples - in your parlance, "serious" users.

This is only step one - but the future looks promising, for sure.
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