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New Macs

For current or would-be users of Apple Mac computers, with answers to many FAQs.

Re: New Macs

Postby redlester » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:35 am

desmond wrote:Remember, so far, only the *low end* machines have been released. These are small, light, very capable machines designed for everyday people - not so much for people running orchestral movie score mockups with 400 tracks and 100GB of samples - in your parlance, "serious" users.

This is only step one - but the future looks promising, for sure.

Absolutely, what I meant was they need to clarify it over time. It's clearly very early days. Will be very interesting to find out how the RAM thing works and how it will change perceptions of how much is "needed".

But one thing that's been the case is the huge extra cost Apple have charged for anything other than the default amount of memory and storage space. Will be interesting to see if the new generation 27" iMac will be as simple for user upgrade of RAM as the current one is. This time next year maybe we'll have a better idea.
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Re: New Macs

Postby johnny h » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:25 pm

desmond wrote:
redlester wrote:They need to clarify the RAM issue for those of us who want to use it for large RAM-guzzling sample libraries, where 64GB or ideally 128GB is considered essential for “serious” users, on the current Intel platform. We need to know how it equates to the new integrated RAM.

Remember, so far, only the *low end* machines have been released. These are small, light, very capable machines designed for everyday people - not so much for people running orchestral movie score mockups with 400 tracks and 100GB of samples - in your parlance, "serious" users
Really, why? Single core performance is still very important for daw work and the m1 chip absolutely hammers any intel or amd chip, including the iMac Pro and Mac Pro. Even the top end 16 can’t compete.

The SSDs Apple use are always extremely fast so will have no trouble streaming 400+ tracks. The only difference is it won’t have the awful heat issues that plague the intel line.
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Re: New Macs

Postby desmond » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:29 pm

johnny h wrote:Really, why? Single core performance is still very important for daw work and the m1 chip absolutely hammers any intel or amd chip, including the iMac Pro and Mac Pro. Even the top end 16 can’t compete.

Because these machines released so far are limited to 8 or 16GB of ram, and single external monitor (and a few other limitations in terms of busses and connectivity support).

These machines look really great, but will be at the appropriate entry-level place in the line once the more pro later models arrive, capable of supporting the larger array of pro needs - more RAM, more cores, active cooling, multi-monitor support, multiple I/O busses and so on.
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Re: New Macs

Postby johnny h » Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:00 pm

desmond wrote:
johnny h wrote:Really, why? Single core performance is still very important for daw work and the m1 chip absolutely hammers any intel or amd chip, including the iMac Pro and Mac Pro. Even the top end 16 can’t compete.

Because these machines released so far are limited to 8 or 16GB of ram, and single external monitor (and a few other limitations in terms of busses and connectivity support).

These machines look really great, but will be at the appropriate entry-level place in the line once the more pro later models arrive, capable of supporting the larger array of pro needs - more RAM, more cores, active cooling, multi-monitor support, multiple I/O busses and so on.
16GB RAM really is plenty if the ssd is super fast, which it is. In mobile, Apple chips always vastly outperform the competition despite often having less RAM.

You only have two eyes so two displays should be plenty to work with! The MacBook 13 does have a fan so sustained workloads will likely be absolutely fine. Why not take the vastly more powerful cpu in a much more efficient, smaller and cheaper package?
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Re: New Macs

Postby desmond » Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:04 pm

johnny h wrote:16GB RAM really is plenty if the ssd is super fast, which it is. In mobile, Apple chips always vastly outperform the competition despite often having less RAM.

Honestly, I'm quite surprised at your comments - if Apple had released a new 16" MBP with only 16GB max, I would have thought you'd be blasting them for being out of touch with what pro's need...

For me, 16GB is fine, and probably is for most typical users.

johnny h wrote:You only have two eyes so two displays should be plenty to work with! The MacBook 13 does have a fan so sustained workloads will likely be absolutely fine. Why not take the vastly more powerful cpu in a much more efficient, smaller and cheaper package?

If these machines work for you, then great! Personally, I'm more interested in the more "serious" machines when they come.

Either way, this is good news for Mac users.... :thumbup:
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Re: New Macs

Postby johnny h » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:48 pm

desmond wrote:
johnny h wrote:16GB RAM really is plenty if the ssd is super fast, which it is. In mobile, Apple chips always vastly outperform the competition despite often having less RAM.

Honestly, I'm quite surprised at your comments - if Apple had released a new 16" MBP with only 16GB max, I would have thought you'd be blasting them for being out of touch with what pro's need...

For me, 16GB is fine, and probably is for most typical users.

johnny h wrote:You only have two eyes so two displays should be plenty to work with! The MacBook 13 does have a fan so sustained workloads will likely be absolutely fine. Why not take the vastly more powerful cpu in a much more efficient, smaller and cheaper package?

If these machines work for you, then great! Personally, I'm more interested in the more "serious" machines when they come.

Either way, this is good news for Mac users.... :thumbup:
I'm more interested in top end machines but I don't know why anyone would pick an overpriced, underpowered, overheating intel 16" when you can get a much faster M1 machine for half the cost and twice the battery life.
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Re: New Macs

Postby desmond » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:58 pm

I completely agree.

When the 16" and (rumoured) 14" MBP come, things will get really interesting. :thumbup:

Also, a more powerful Mac Mini and iMacs where the fans don't come on so much as they should be more efficient will all be great news. 2021 will I think be a good time to get into the Mac...
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Re: New Macs

Postby G-Doubleyou » Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:17 am

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Re: New Macs

Postby ManFromGlass » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:53 pm

johnny h wrote:
You only have two eyes so two displays should be plenty to work with!

You don’t hang out with many of those odd birds called film composers! I know a few who must have 4 and one guy who has 5 monitors all in the same room, same computer.
If you are a small operation you may have a sound booth so a monitor is also needed in there. I think it’s a bit nuts but we are a strange species sometimes.
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Re: New Macs

Postby Luke W » Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:42 pm

desmond wrote:Also, a more powerful Mac Mini and iMacs where the fans don't come on so much as they should be more efficient will all be great news. 2021 will I think be a good time to get into the Mac...

Definitely. A replacement for the current i7 Mini would be a great little machine for me, the release of the current lineup has certainly made me glad I waited to see what the move away from Intel would bring.
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Re: New Macs

Postby johnny h » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:02 pm

ManFromGlass wrote:
johnny h wrote:
You only have two eyes so two displays should be plenty to work with!

You don’t hang out with many of those odd birds called film composers! I know a few who must have 4 and one guy who has 5 monitors all in the same room, same computer.
If you are a small operation you may have a sound booth so a monitor is also needed in there. I think it’s a bit nuts but we are a strange species sometimes.
I used to use two monitors but I actually find it really annoying now. Its easier to concentrate with one.
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Re: New Macs

Postby desmond » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:03 pm

Example use cases compiling a large project in Xcode.
(Smaller graphs mean the computer is faster to do the work).

Matthew Panzerino:
"In my mind, this is the money chart. This is a full compile of a fresh checkout of WebKit on the M1. Followed by a chart that shows battery usage. This is not an error, I tried it a bunch to make sure. Yes, it had ninety one percent battery left."

Image

Image
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Re: New Macs

Postby ManFromGlass » Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:03 pm

I’m suddenly feeling a bit optimistic for the future. When my 2010 towers bite the dust there may be an affordable option.
Also -
Don’t worry about that 91% battery usage, Apple will release some upgrades to make the battery drain quicker, as is tradition.
:D
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Re: New Macs

Postby Agharta » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:17 pm

For those that want to get nerdy here's one technical appraisal:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16252/ma ... -m1-tested

There 2 tests show results for both a native and x86 (Rosetta2) version.
It's been suggested that apps that are very RAM intensive will do particularly well with Rosetta2 and that overall there will be a large variability in how well it works:

Image

Image

Keep in mind that the real-world competition for performance is AMD as Intel have been in crisis mode for about 3 years, so it’s fairly easy to outperform them. Plus Apple are using a newer process node than AMD so that gives them a decent efficiency advantage.
Overall, it looks like an excellent first step. Intrigued to see how they do with long trousers on!
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Re: New Macs

Postby desmond » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:08 am

Some real world testing here:
https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/produc ... -logic-pro

As you can see a new MacBook Pro M1 can run over twice as many Space Designers as a fully loaded Intel MacBook Pro i9.

What About Fan Noise?
On the MacBook Pro i9 after running the test for 2 minutes the temperature of the Mac was around 80 degrees C. At this point, the fan was going fast enough to dry your hair.

On the new MacBook Pro 13" M1 after running the same test for 5 minutes the temperature of the Mac was around 26 degrees C. We couldn't get the fan to kick in. This thing is silent, it could spend its life in a monastery where one has to take a vow of silence.

We've been running tests for several hours now on all the major DAWs and this entry-level Apple Mac M1 computer is, to put it bluntly, f*cking insane. In our early tests, the hype is actually less than the reality and whenever Apple launch their next-generation professional Mac computers, we expect that they are going to be very special.
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