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Big Sur

Postby Howdy Doody Time » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:44 am

I'm wondering if Big Sur is a fixed and re-marketed version of the short lived and problematic Catalina. If it is I'm going to install it (after I make a backup, which will be after I find out how to make a back up) I would imagine there will be little or no impact on existing software (in my case Nuendo, Cubase Pro and Reason 11 Suite)

I was looking at the May edition this morning, particularly the Intel Cascade Lake powered Mac Pro, and wondering where that fits now in the grand scheme of M1 things.

Potential buyers must be holding back I guess.
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Re: Big Sur

Postby zenguitar » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:06 am

Well, Catalina has been around for a while now, no more or less than any other recent OSX iteration. I upgraded my iMac from High Sierra with no problems and it came as standard on my MacBook Pro. And I've had no problems at all with Catalina.

So I see no reason to call it either short-lived or problematic.

However, I am holding back on upgrading to Big Sur until the hardware and software I use is verified to play nicely with Big Sur. Not rocket science, just common sense.

I do have back-ups on Time Machine, but I do admit to be nervous about using them. I haven't ever restored from a Time Machine back-up because I've never had the need to do it.

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Re: Big Sur

Postby Howdy Doody Time » Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:55 am

zenguitar wrote:Well, Catalina has been around for a while now, no more or less than any other recent OSX iteration. I upgraded my iMac from High Sierra with no problems and it came as standard on my MacBook Pro. And I've had no problems at all with Catalina.

So I see no reason to call it either short-lived or problematic.

However, I am holding back on upgrading to Big Sur until the hardware and software I use is verified to play nicely with Big Sur. Not rocket science, just common sense.

I do have back-ups on Time Machine, but I do admit to be nervous about using them. I haven't ever restored from a Time Machine back-up because I've never had the need to do it.

Andy :beamup:

To call it problematic is nothing short of the truth. Aside from the swathes of complaints and indeed scathing articles from yon side of the pond about the problems encountered by graphic design companies among other users of Catalina, I have had my own problems with it particularly with Steinberg Nuendo. I'm not sure Steinberg have removed the advice not to install it even now for Nuendo ( It's OK for Cubase) Not sure which planet you are on if you think Catalina has not been problematic :)

Short-Lived, well that's also debatable. I installed it from newly released on my 2019 MBP which means it can't be more than a year old. By comparison, I remember Snow Leopard which I ran without issue for what seems ages. My Radars are running Windows 8.1 !!!

I'd be a bit nervous about backups when I think about it. Goodness knows how long it would take to re-install everything, because of authorizations, forgotten passwords and serial numbers should the backup fail.
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Re: Big Sur

Postby redlester » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:15 am

From the Steinberg web site:

The public release of Big Sur is imminent/now available and the first Mac computers using Apple Silicon have been announced as well. The transition to Apple Silicon processors will be important in the near future of technology, having amongst others a big impact on software development under macOS.

As it stands we need to inform you, our loyal customer base, that neither our software nor our hardware products are currently supporting new Apple Silicon computers (running Big Sur with or without Rosetta 2) until further notice. Our initial compatibility tests with Big Sur are underway but will focus on Mac computers utilizing Intel processor architecture for the time being. Further details will be published as tests progress.

Looking forward, Steinberg software and hardware will support Apple Silicon-powered Mac computers but as yet it is too early to provide more information

I just went from Mojave to Catalina yesterday, following the time honoured advice to always wait a year, and have had no issues so far. Apart from my Waves plug-in's no longer working, but I knew that would happen before I made the move.

Regarding longevity, I can't see what's to stop people running Catalina for years if they so wish, just like any other version.
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Re: Big Sur

Postby RichardT » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:24 am

Howdy Doody Time wrote:I'm wondering if Big Sur is a fixed and re-marketed version of the short lived and problematic Catalina. If it is I'm going to install it (after I make a backup, which will be after I find out how to make a back up) I would imagine there will be little or no impact on existing software (in my case Nuendo, Cubase Pro and Reason 11 Suite)

I was looking at the May edition this morning, particularly the Intel Cascade Lake powered Mac Pro, and wondering where that fits now in the grand scheme of M1 things.

Potential buyers must be holding back I guess.

Well, Apple have decided to call it Mac OS 11 so from their point of view it’s a significant update.

I skipped Catalina, to avoid the risks around hardened runtimes when it first came out, but I’m planning to install Big Sur once all my plugins are certified, and DAW software, of course.

You definitely should not install Big Sur now.

Re M1, so far they are only rolling out replacements for the less powerful machines, whose memory and graphics requirements can be met by the M1 chip itself. Apple’s strategy for more powerful machines, such as we need for making music, with much more RAM and in some cases more cores, is not clear. It would be pretty astonishing if they can build a ‘system on a chip’ with 32 or 64GB of memory and powerful graphics - but I wouldn’t put it past them.
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Re: Big Sur

Postby Howdy Doody Time » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:19 pm

Yes, you are making sense. I will stay where I am with Catalina for now. I logged on to Nuendo for the first time in a while today, and the Hub page now carries a warning for those considering updating to Catalina to please read the users comments before doing so. Previously it was a statement that the situation was being reviewed, and advising against it.

I took the opportunity to upgrade to 10.3 and true to form, I encountered a disappearing hub page after running the upgrade and restarting Nuendo, which meant I could not access my projects, and that could only be resolved by quitting and restarting Nuendo. Seems OK now though, touch wood. Catalina rightly or wrongly, gets blamed for simple annoying things like this, and many other little glitches, which is why I want to move on to the next OS as soon as it makes sense to do so.
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Re: Big Sur

Postby johnny h » Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:22 pm

Howdy Doody Time wrote:I'm wondering if Big Sur is a fixed and re-marketed version of the short lived and problematic Catalina. If it is I'm going to install it (after I make a backup, which will be after I find out how to make a back up) I would imagine there will be little or no impact on existing software (in my case Nuendo, Cubase Pro and Reason 11 Suite)
Are you the same person that went with Catalina (against all advice), got into a huge world of trouble and complained viciously about it for months on end?

There is close to zero reason for jumping from a perfectly working OS to a brand new one as soon as it comes out. Don't do it!
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Re: Big Sur

Postby Howdy Doody Time » Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:05 pm

Moi! complain! well I may have voiced a little concern on the odd occasion. :)

Actually I was a bit unlucky. I'd just bought the i9 15" 2019 MBP and thought it deserved the latest OS. Turned out the MBP wasn't very good (still isn't) and Catalina hardly helped. But what really rattled my cage was Apple promptly released a better MBP literally months after I'd bought the pup, a hound which could not be considered inexpensive. So to release OSX 11 literally months (it IS less than a year) after Catalina, begins to look like the same strategy. If it's broke - replace it quick, and gloss over the cracks.

For what it's worth I'm sticking with what I've got now. The most important parts of my setup are in fact Windows machines. I run Macs too, for UAD, Waves and associated DAWS. The rest is Hybrid analog mixing to iZ machines as I say running Windows (bare bones Win 8.1)

I'm writing this on an early 2015 MBP running High Sierra and it has been faultless and is my favourite machine.
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Re: Big Sur

Postby JohnHop » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:31 am

Howdy Doody Time wrote:So to release OSX 11 literally months (it IS less than a year) after Catalina, begins to look like the same strategy. If it's broke - replace it quick, and gloss over the cracks.

Hmmmm... (it is MORE than a year)

Apple have been doing annual releases for many years now.

Snow Leopard release date Aug 28 2010
Lion release date Jul 19 2011
Mountain Lion release date Jul 25 2012
Mavericks release date Oct 22 2013
Yosemite release date Oct 16 2014
El Capitan. release date Sep 30 2015
Sierra release date Sep 20 2016
High Sierra release date Sep 25 2017
Mojave. release date Sep 24 2018
Catalina release date Oct 7 2019
Big Sur release date Nov 12 2020
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Re: Big Sur

Postby John Stafford » Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:14 am

I haven't had any problems with Nuendo on Catalina. I use very few plugins, so that could have something to do with it.
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Re: Big Sur

Postby Stonehousestudio » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:01 pm

I worked for Apple for over 15 years and every year would see the poor people that had just 'upgraded' their OS and see the frustration on their faces, as their whole world turned to S***.

Just don't do it, its never worth upgrading a Mac with pro audio or video software installed, until every kink has been ironed out.
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Re: Big Sur

Postby BobTheDog » Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:59 pm

If I was to explain Big Sur it would be along the lines of “imagine iOS on your computer with lots of added questions”

Do you want to let XXX access your documents, do you want XXX to access your microphone, do you want XXX to access your photos, do you want XXX to access the internet.

Repeat over and over again.

The best bit is it’s ability to “quarantine” perfectly signed applications (via apples developer program) that it has ran before, randomly. Yeah you used to be able to run that before but not now, it’s madness.

The iOS email app is the worst email client I have ever seen, that’s what you get in Big Sur.

Want to write to the root of the disk, no you cant do that without turning all security off.

I can see what Apple are doing, 99% of people want to surf the internet, deal with their small amount of emails, maybe write a letter and do this safely. For this no problem, for anyone that wants a computer to actually do something it’s a nightmare,
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Re: Big Sur

Postby Howdy Doody Time » Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:04 pm

Thank you Bob The Dog.

Refreshing to see this kind of frank honesty instead of the usual "I've been using it for eons with no problem" and "Apple have always done this - what's your problem" on this forum.

The truth is of course Windows is no better for what we as a group are asking of it. We use home computers aimed squarely at the games / Facebook / Zoom etc. market for pro audio production and we develop our own strategy to make it work for us.

My strategy from now on is once everything is working, then turn off updates of any kind.

.............. Until a must have DAW update or Plugin or bit of Hardware simply will not work without it :frown:
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