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First hardware synth (Summit) in conjunction with VIs in Logic - issues/questions with sync/latency

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First hardware synth (Summit) in conjunction with VIs in Logic - issues/questions with sync/latency

Postby skipper01 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:26 pm

Hi and merry xmas all!
Can anybody help/advise?
I am using Logic X and have purchased my first hardware synth - Novation Summit to use in conjunction with VIs including Omnisphere, Serum etc.
Its a tricky area (latency in conjunction with external MIDI) I appreciate, but I'm wondering how best to use the Summit both technically and creatively actually now.
I use the Summit via USB for MIDI wired via an External Instrument with the auto compensate latency box ticked.
I noticed a problem with tight timing sync when trying to use the Summit with an Arpeggio rhythm with a kick going and some other VIs in sequence in Logic.
I was actually thinking of rendering a part to afford and add another separate layer/track of Summit using a different Multi.
I have made sure the Summit is clocked from Logic and Logic is sending MIDI clock etc. The Summit is showing the minor timing clock changes and all seems well.
I think my problem more relates to latency having done some further tests.
I appreciate the considerations of 2 seperate aspects of latency -
Roundtrip latency as governed by Logics audio Prefs and latency induced by plugins. I use the low latency mode when tracking with a minimum level set of 0ms to deal with the plugin aspect when recording in/performing.
So, I ran some render tests (audio track with Summits relevant output) to look at timings against the grid when the Audio Prefs latency are set from min 32 to max 1024 as I/O buffer size settings. The 32 setting appears the closest to being locked to the grid looking at the rendered audio recorded.
So, my assumption now is that I/O buffer size is a problem/consideration for timing when using an external synth with tight timing required for arp pulsing/basses etc.
Equally, the problem with running very low buffer sizes is that Logic doesn't seem to like patch changes whilst playing on ie an instance of Omnisphere and the overload error will only go away (as the error message suggests) with higher buffer sizes.
Probably not relevant but I set the 'Process Buffer Range' setting to 'Large'.
So, I guess it comes down in part to creative matters. What do other folks do in relation to this issue/dilemma when using external hardware etc.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts/suggestions.....
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Re: First hardware synth (Summit) in conjunction with VIs in Logic - issues/questions with sync/latency

Postby desmond » Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:38 pm

There's no guarantee of continued playback with plugin patch changes. Switching patches on a plugin could be as little overhead of changing a few plugin parameters, or it could require loading many GB's of samples.

It's a complex issue depending on what individual plugins are doing and how much CPU/disk resource is available - but there are certainly no guarantees and no expectation of continued playback when loading a given plugin patch. Some are "heavier" than others.

When doing your testing to figure out what workflows are best for you, make sure you also test in a project with *no* plugins (different from having loads of loaded plugins with low latency mode on). You might also get differences depending on whether your Summit external instrument track is selected or not. Also check your audio hardware recording delay setting.
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Re: First hardware synth (Summit) in conjunction with VIs in Logic - issues/questions with sync/latency

Postby skipper01 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:02 pm

Many thanks for this info - all advise noted.
I am using a UAD Apollo 8 interface and the recording delay set to 0 as things stand.
Just for my own satisfaction and understanding going forward though-
So with external hardware triggered from MIDI within the Logic session, the I/O buffer size will affect the 'lock' of timing no matter what and where...(higher sizes will creep out of time to the grid) or is it just dependent on specific hardware and other factors?
As things stand operationally, perhaps i need to work at a low buffer size of ie 64 as i simply cant see the point of using the Summit if its out of time at higher buffer sizes ie 512 size and look to render audio from the Summit im happy with before delving into heavy mixing and plugins etc...?
I can work around any plugin latencies with low latency mode but i cant do a lot if things are out of time with I/O buffer size issues.
Perhaps there is no absolute answer - I was just wondering what other folks do technically and creatively.

I'll run the raw test as said
Thanks again
skipper01
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