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Relax... everything is fine.

Postby desmond » Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:47 pm

Image

It's ok, it's probably not at 128 degrees.

It's probably much higher, it's just the sensor maxes out at 128...

Hurry up and release some new M1 MBP's Apple, before my machine melts through the desk... :shocked: :?
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Re: Relax... everything is fine.

Postby ManFromGlass » Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:01 pm

You could warm up a meal with that while you work.
Would that be true multitasking?
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Re: Relax... everything is fine.

Postby s_e_a_n » Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:26 pm

So what's happening Desmond? Are there some particular processes triggering this?
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Re: Relax... everything is fine.

Postby desmond » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:04 pm

s_e_a_n wrote:So what's happening Desmond? Are there some particular processes triggering this?

It's basically hardware failure.

Back story: I have a 2010 MBP, a model which is notorious for having cooling problems. I run my fans higher than default anyway as I like machines to run cool, I hate overheating computers (but I also hate fans too...)

Anyway, the GPU eventually died as they all do in this generation of laptops, and Apple "fixed it" under a special repair program for failed GPUs. However, what i didn't know, despite asking the Geniuses at the time whether they replace the GPU with chips that no longer have the design flaw (Yes, I was told, that's correct), but no, what they *actually* do is swap out the motherboard for a different motherboard where currently the GPU hasn't failed yet and is still working.

So those too will fail. As mine did (I think maybe a year later).

So, as this is common, and not being in a position to replace it, I did what a lot of people did which is use some of the ways smarter people than me figured out how to keep these machines working by bypassing the GPU, and forcing the machine to only use the integrated GPU - this then lets them boot and continue to work, albeit without the ability to use external displays and other GPU related functions.

So this is why in the above screenshot the GPU VCore is at 0.00 volts - the GPU is bypassed and so there is no voltage passed.

Anyway, starting a couple of months ago I started noticed some new overheating behaviour. Normally I use this as an opportunity to clean out the internal fans which do get gunked up over time, but this didn't help. On keeping an eye on temps, I noticed that the GPU Die - Analog sensor was getting to very high - somewhat concerningly high - temps. I stuck that temperate gauge on my main menu bar, as I do the main CPU temperature, so I could keep an eye on it.

What would basically happen is that when the CPU starts working (ie doing anything other than being idle), the GPU Die temps start to climb. If I back off CPU work, the temps would relax a bit, and cranking the fans helps, but it was a problem and a real inhibitor for doing anything processor intensive. What I figured was that perhaps the heatsink had recently detached a bit from the GPU and was thus not cooling it properly anymore.

However, currently (since the last few days or so), it's just maxed at 128 degrees permanently, even cranking the internal fans *and* an external desktop fan don't bring it down. It's basically permanently maxing out the sensor all the time the machine is on - likely the GPU sensor has failed/burnt out now, rather than the chip actually being at that temperature. I thought it might have done that before as it maxed out at 128 for a while, but then started reading temps properly again,.

So yes, just bad stuff happening internally all around. You can see why the M1, and it's power efficiency (no heat! hardly any fans!) is so attractive to me right now (and why I'd hoped that the MBP's were not going to be late 2021 products, as I'm not sure my MBP will make it, and I do want to keep it running for legacy/compatibility reasons.)

Fun times. Honestly, the day I can do some proper work without heat and fans I'm going to be ecstatic...

So that's my tale of woe...
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Re: Relax... everything is fine.

Postby desmond » Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:18 am

Well, the temperature sensor does still "work". Woke the machine up from sleep, the GPU temp was 92 straight away and then over ten minutes slowly climbed with a more or less idle computer up to 128 degrees and then stayed there...
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Re: Relax... everything is fine.

Postby blinddrew » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:30 pm

That's actually more concerning. Best keep the fans and innards clear otherwise you could be looking at a fire hazard. :(
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Re: Relax... everything is fine.

Postby desmond » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:45 pm

blinddrew wrote:That's actually more concerning. Best keep the fans and innards clear otherwise you could be looking at a fire hazard. :(

It's currently idling at 106 degrees, so not as slammed as it has been over the past few days. The thing is, I don't really know what it means (other than making me nervous!).

Even when the thing is sitting at 128, it's not like the laptop feels hot, like it does when the CPU is working hard, and/or you connect thunderbolt stuff (where the cable also heats up the laptop). And all the rest of the temps are fine. So it's just in that one sensor spot.

Anyway, it's on the external GPU which I *know* has failed, and is also bypassed, so I can't really trust what the sensor is saying. It might just be that the GPU is in a worse state than it was a year ago, but that it doesn't really matter anyway.

Fun and games... :shifty:
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Re: Relax... everything is fine.

Postby ManFromGlass » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:38 pm

It’s amazing you’ve kept it going for so long. My towers are 2010 and cranky. Every day I get out of them is a bonus. I think they are waiting until I am mid-project with the deadline looming that something will happen.
Is it possible your temp sensor is flakey and the temp is fine?
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Re: Relax... everything is fine.

Postby desmond » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:46 pm

ManFromGlass wrote:It’s amazing you’ve kept it going for so long.

It has been a struggle at times, but I've been holding on as long as I can...

ManFromGlass wrote:Is it possible your temp sensor is flakey and the temp is fine?

Yes, it's very possible.

It does vary with load (when it's not continually maxed out I mean), but there are hardware problems with the GPU, and it could be that the sensor is either on, or close to the GPU and is also failing, or at least misreading.

One of the reasons I've been keeping an eye on it is to try to deduce where the problem might be, but I don't have anything conclusive from the observed behaviour. I've sort of been trying to train myself to not worry about it so much, even to the point of removing the temp sensor reading from the menu bar as it was unbearable watching it hit 110+, making me want to reach out to crank the fans etc.

But there are longtime processing things that require significant CPU load over time I've had to put a pause on as I'm not sure the machine can handle the continual stress. (The same applies to me, for that matter..! :lol: )
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Re: Relax... everything is fine.

Postby desmond » Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:52 pm

I think it's just trying to mess with me...

Image

Image

Currently coasting along at a positively chilly 75 degrees... What does it mean? Who the h*ll knows, not me for sure!
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Re: Relax... everything is fine.

Postby Humble Bee » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:01 pm

Looks like you slept way past 10 o’clock! :)

“Late shall the sinner awaken...”
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Re: Relax... everything is fine.

Postby desmond » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:08 pm

Humble Bee wrote:Looks like you slept way past 10 o’clock! :)

“Late shall the sinner awaken...”

Despite certain AI-related claims here to the contrary, I am not my computer... ;)

Morning is iPad time, anyway...
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Re: Relax... everything is fine.

Postby s_e_a_n » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:04 pm

I'd keep a close eye on it. Don't want it burning the house down or anything :wtf:
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Re: Relax... everything is fine.

Postby merlyn » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:26 pm

I would believe the moderately inaccurate but reliable finger as temperature sensor. If it was really 128 degrees you would feel it, surely?

Also heat spreads and you'd get high readings on all the sensors, or at least see them all steadily rise while the computer is on.

From what you've posted this seems like the sensor is broken rather than an impending volcanic event.
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Re: Relax... everything is fine.

Postby desmond » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:58 pm

merlyn wrote:I would believe the moderately inaccurate but reliable finger as temperature sensor. If it was really 128 degrees you would feel it, surely?

You'd think so, but if it's just in one highly localised position, it might be a small spot that doesn't spread much heat outwards.

merlyn wrote:Also heat spreads and you'd get high readings on all the sensors, or at least see them all steadily rise while the computer is on.

I do, but nothing that's particularly abnormal that I've noticed. But when the CPU is working, this sensor does also climb too.

merlyn wrote:From what you've posted this seems like the sensor is broken rather than an impending volcanic event.

Yes, but cranking the internal fans on *does* bring the sensor down (unless it's maxed out), so it's kind of working.

My best guess at this point is that it's working, but intermittently - ie it goes a bit crazy and climbs until it maxes out at 128, and no fan work changes it - I think this is the phase where it's behaving unreliably, and it stays broken until it starts working again.

That's my best guess on the evidence I've seen over the past weeks, anyway. So like I say, I'm trying to tell myself not to worry too much about it...
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