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New M1 iMac shipping with 256GB storage as standard!!!

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Re: New M1 iMac shipping with 256GB storage as standard!!!

Postby Kennyscrown » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:43 am

I agree, I think the lack of storage is poor on a desktop.

However, interestingly, I have have been running a 2013 21 inch iMac with 1TB rotating disk, and over the years the disk has edged towards being full, significantly impacting performance. I gradually shifted items onto backup and secondary disks, and have a 2TB HDD to cover most working files.

But now I find that I only have about 400 gb the disk actually in the iMac. My photos and documents are on iCloud (much safer I think, most people would be mad not to have cloud back-up of files) ; I subscribe to Apple music and my wife to Spotify; and the only actual files I have on the HDD are music files from ripping my CD collection when I bought my first iPod.

For those of you pros using huge sample libraries and virtual instruments I would expect you’d have them externally anyway.

When looking at what Mac I would upgrade to next, I was horrified to see the small storage amounts on the new M1 laptops and Mini, but now I do genuinely think 512GB will be enough, with external storage for backup. Having seen the new iMac line-up, as much as I think they look good, with larger screens, I don’t need most of the consumer-centric things they offer, like a 6 speaker surround-sound system in a computer. Unless I suddenly get a lot better off, I’ll go for an M1 Mini with 16gb and 512SSD, and save almost £1000.
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Re: New M1 iMac shipping with 256GB storage as standard!!!

Postby Kwackman » Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:25 am

Howdy Doody Time wrote:Whether he means it or not, Sheldon paints the best possible picture of the perfect Mac by dismissing issues out of hand, item by item, issues which perplex users to the point of distraction, and even prompt them to invest in Windows equipment out of frustration.

IMHO that's a mean spirited response to Desmond's help on this forum to Mac users.
Desmond's responses aren't all about "the perfect Mac", go read some of his thoughts on certain Apple laptops.
He responds to the rants on here with reason and (IMHO) integrity, I hope he continues to do so.
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Re: New M1 iMac shipping with 256GB storage as standard!!!

Postby Howdy Doody Time » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:35 am

Kwackman wrote:
Howdy Doody Time wrote:Whether he means it or not, Sheldon paints the best possible picture of the perfect Mac by dismissing issues out of hand, item by item, issues which perplex users to the point of distraction, and even prompt them to invest in Windows equipment out of frustration.

IMHO that's a mean spirited response to Desmond's help on this forum to Mac users.
Desmond's responses aren't all about "the perfect Mac", go read some of his thoughts on certain Apple laptops.
He responds to the rants on here with reason and (IMHO) integrity, I hope he continues to do so.

Howdy Doody Time also wrote: Sheldon does regularly suggest fixes to problems which can be solved by the user though, so that's OK, no excellent.

But of course you can miss the point and ignore that.
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Re: New M1 iMac shipping with 256GB storage as standard!!!

Postby CS70 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:40 am

blinddrew wrote:
desmond wrote:
Blott wrote:It's poor practice at best, completely unethical at worst IMO.

Not unethical - they make a product and price it as they think the market will bear. And people make product choices accordingly...
Actually I think the forced obsolescence strays into the unethical in my view.
Hence I don't buy Macs. ;)

+1. Vote with your money, it's the only vote that matters with corporations.
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Re: New M1 iMac shipping with 256GB storage as standard!!!

Postby Luke W » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:57 am

Howdy Doody Time wrote:However, every forum probably needs a Sheldon, and a grumpy old git like me.

I'd like to think I sit somewhere in the middle :lol:

I understand people being annoyed about things that were a standard fixture on older machines being optional or just simply missing from newer ones, it's definitely something that's affected me a few times.

But it comes down to a numbers game, and I think it's probably safe to say that the sort of things that bother "us lot" make no difference at all to the vast majority of Apple's userbase. The amount of people who'd use an SD Card slot is tiny, hence the removal. Very few people crack open their machine and start throwing in sticks of RAM themselves, and I dare say that not many more even find themselves in a situation where they actually need to add more anyway.

That said, some things are quite clearly done with the intent of shifting some adapters. A lot of people do still use USB-A ports for example... But I don't think the noise will ever be loud enough to make a difference unfortunately.
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Re: New M1 iMac shipping with 256GB storage as standard!!!

Postby desmond » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:09 am

Howdy Doody Time wrote:This is typical, on this forum historically, goes back years. Someone complains about Apple products, and Sheldon (read Desmond) disects each point and defends it on Apples behalf.

I speak on *my* behalf. Someone above was suggesting the media should be shouting "Scandal!". The fact that they are not - and the fact that the media *love* any chance of a bit of Apple bashing - suggests the reality is far less scandal-worthy than one person might think.

Howdy Doody Time wrote:On the face of it, there is nothing wrong with that, except it does nothing to alleviate the problem if it can't be fixed by a visit to Terminal for example because it is a marketing or design fault, but instead annoys the OP even more.

You're suggesting I think bugs or design flaws in Apple products are perfectly fine with me? I've been bitten by plenty of them, much to my cost/annoyance.

Howdy Doody Time wrote:The real problem with the Sheldon approach is that it hides or masks genuine difficulties caused by Apple releasing products with unsolved issues. Catalina was a perfect example, and there are others.

All software has flaws. If you think, say, Windows is not a product with "unsolved issues" too, then good luck to you. I understand your experience hasn't been great, but there is a tendency to translate your experience to *everybody* else, and that's simply not the truth, most of the time.

Howdy Doody Time wrote:Whether he means it or not, Sheldon paints the best possible picture of the perfect Mac by dismissing issues out of hand, item by item, issues which perplex users to the point of distraction, and even prompt them to invest in Windows equipment out of frustration.

Well, I think that's unfair and unwarranted. I can't "dismiss issues" as if I'm some authority - I'm just a guy, using my computer to get stuff done like everybody else. *All* I can do is discuss, and where asked, give my perspective, point of view, and opinions. It's OK if my opinions differ from yours, we're all intelligent adults capable of discussing stuff and holding different views. I'm not invalidating your opinions, and neither am I categorising them as "attacking Apple".

As for the entry level machines using 256 SSDs, I'm not "dismissing it", I just don't see it as as much of a problem as other people do. A friend of mine just got her first Mac, an M1 Air, and she is *never going to come close* to filling a 256GB SSD machine - *even* after I imported her entire lifetime photo library onto it, which took up 130GB.

Moving up from the entry level machines, the more Pro machines all start with (bar one iMac iirc) 512GB, and have options (if you want to pay for it) up to 2TB. They are expensive options - too expensive for me, and yes, Apple has, as I already mentioned (not "defended") typically charged very high prices for this stuff. If you were under the illusion that I somehow thought this was Great!, then perhaps I'm not communicating properly, and/or you're not reading my words properly.

However, I'm not of the opinion that this is "scandalous", I just roll my eyes a bit, and choose a machine I can best afford that best fits my needs, even if perhaps I can't afford something I'd really like. That's life.

And I'm not one of those people that thinks ranting about this stuff on forums will in any way practically affect reality, or will be a good use or time and energy. Sorry if you're looking for rant-buddies - try a different forum for that.

So if there's one takeaway, I guess you need to understand that "me not thinking it's a huge problem", or even "Yes, it's a problem, but here's a temporary fix that will keep you working" is not the same thing as "defending Apple". You're reading way too much into my words, as if I'm somehow some internet Mac guru whose merest finger waving causes ripples in the Mac community. And nor can I speak on behalf of anyone else other than me.
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Re: New M1 iMac shipping with 256GB storage as standard!!!

Postby desmond » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:12 am

Kennyscrown wrote:I don’t need most of the consumer-centric things they offer, like a 6 speaker surround-sound system in a computer.

Point of clarification - it's not 6-speaker surround. It's stereo, they just use two bass units and a tweeter unit for each of the left and right sides, to try to get a better sound from the small area they have for the speakers.
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Re: New M1 iMac shipping with 256GB storage as standard!!!

Postby BigRedX » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:12 am

I think the OP has mistaken this new iMac for a professional machine.

It's not. Even if the gaudy colours didn't make that clear, the amount of RAM available should have. An iMac is essentially an over-sized laptop on a fancy stand.

As others have said most users won't need more storage or ethernet, and while IMO 16GB really ought to be the entry level amount of RAM on any computer these days, I haven't actually been able to try one of the new Macs for myself to see if the M1 chip is good enough to get away with less, so I'll reserve comment on that.
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Re: New M1 iMac shipping with 256GB storage as standard!!!

Postby Blott » Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:40 pm

Minimum requirement for Big Sur is 4GB RAM - that's just for the OS.

That leaves 4GB RAM free for running Apps.

It doesn't matter whether you're just a consumer or not, it's not enough.

I'm sitting here typing this response with nothing but Safari, iTunes and Activity Monitor open and am using 11GB of RAM. So all that will happen is the new iMacs will use the SSD as a swap file much more often, which will reduce the life of the SSD too. Not great in a machine where the SSD isn't replaceable.

And that's just as it is now. In the future it’s likely Mac OS will require more RAM too.

Try and spin it anyway you want, it's a cynical decision by Apple to ship an entry level iMac with half the storage of an iMac from 12 years ago.

8GB RAM has been default of the entry level iMac since 2012 - that's 9 years without an increase in RAM.

Consumer or not, it's pitiful.

The amount of storage that comes as default with this iMac is less than I have on my phone for heavens sake - and my phone is 3 years old. 256GB storage on a £1250 desktop computer in 2021 is shameful.

As for 'ranting' not having an affect - tell that to the ESL!!! :tongue:
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Re: New M1 iMac shipping with 256GB storage as standard!!!

Postby Howdy Doody Time » Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:40 pm

Desmond said "Sorry if you're looking for rant-buddies - try a different forum for that"

No thank you, I like this forum.

My point, perhaps not well put, is that there are way too many Fanboys forums (fora?) where defence of all things Apple is paramount, this is an undeniable fact, and indeed Apple pander to that brigade unashamedly. Our forum here is largely for pros, semi pros and serious amateurs, and we all know that Apple makes mistakes, as of course does Microsoft and Intel. Other forum members simply will not countenance any criticism of Apple at all, and goodness knows Apple have dropped the ball many times, and should be called out for that.

The way I read your detailed takedown of peoples disparaging comments, comes across, unfortunately, as arrogant, but I accept your claim that is isn't meant that way. You say you are just a bloke using his computer, but the fact is you have commanded respect on this forum for years because of your knowledge of the subject. You might consider that when responding to legitimate complaints from perplexed people who invested in Apple gear. In short, whether you realise it or not, if you respond on this forum you have a responsibility to at least be able to be fair and subjective. Or you could simply not respond to OPs complaints. I will refrain from advising you to "try a different forum"
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Re: New M1 iMac shipping with 256GB storage as standard!!!

Postby Dave B » Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:55 pm

There's some serious toys flinging going on here and I find character sniping in this fashion quite distressing. If people disagree with your point of view, then try engaging and understanding their point of view for a second rather than attacking them. There's no need for some of the comments in this thread, and certain people should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

FWIW, my take on this is that Apple have yet to show the RAM customisation options available (at least in the UK) as that is done at check out, so they may well offer more RAM than 8gb. But for a lot of users, 8 will probably be ok. Certainly enough to do web browsing, email and play the odd podcast/music.

I find the whole idea of 256gb of storage being so terrible quite strange : all 3 of my Macs have that and I'm probably going to reduce my drive contents soon when I get rid of 50gb of archived podcasts that I'll never listen to again. We older folks have a different mentality to the young 'uns on owning content and, along with drives being permanently in the cloud, storage requirements are actually less important it seems. Apple have frequently done things which took me time to catch up on after initially scratching my head.

I'm much more concerned by the non-replaceable nature of the SSD which is what has caused me to not nip out and get the M1 Mini to see what the fuss is about. And the only colour iMac that looks vaguely tasteful is, ironically, the silver one (imho).
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Re: New M1 iMac shipping with 256GB storage as standard!!!

Postby desmond » Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:26 pm

Howdy Doody Time wrote:My point, perhaps not well put, is that there are way too many Fanboys forums (fora?) where defence of all things Apple is paramount, this is an undeniable fact

Sure. And there are just as many other forums full of people who dislike Apple intensely, hate the way they do business and how they design the products, and love to bitch about Apple all the time. I'm not sure how either case is relevant, and I'm not particularly interest in either of those extremes. If it's a thinly-veiled attempt at called me an unabashed, unapologetic Apple fanboy who loves everything they do and can't bear to criticise Apple for anything, then I don't think you've been following my posts that carefully. :shrugs:

Howdy Doody Time wrote:The way I read your detailed takedown of peoples disparaging comments, comes across, unfortunately, as arrogant,

You *should* have just read it as "I disagree" to some of those things, nothing more. That's all it is. Half the problem when dealing with bloody Apple products, is that just expressing a positive opinion about some Apple product you like turns you into a fanboy, incapable of seeing the world through unblinkered eyes because you're poisoned by the Apple kool aid.

Having an opinion and stating it in a discussion is not being arrogant. Telling someone else who has a differing opinion to mine that they are wrong *might* be. I respect other people's opinions, and nowhere can you find me telling the people I disagree with that they are *wrong* - just that I disagree, and I state my reasons. I've not said once that Blott is "wrong" for stating his opinions, he is perfectly entitled to them, I understand them, and some of them I agree with, even if I don't share the same cynicism or outrage or whatever.

That's an adult discussion. If you choose to read me as arrogant for doing that, then that's your prerogative, not much I can do about that.

Howdy Doody Time wrote:You say you are just a bloke using his computer, but the fact is you have commanded respect on this forum for years because of your knowledge of the subject.

Whether that's the case or not, it doesn't mean my opinions are any more valid than anyone else's. They are, however, mine, and I'm happy to express them if the subject warrants it, and I'll happily explain my reasons why I have those opinions. I'm also open-minded enough that a convincing argument will go some way towards me changing my opinions too.

Howdy Doody Time wrote:You might consider that when responding to legitimate complaints from perplexed people who invested in Apple gear. In short, whether you realise it or not, if you respond on this forum you have a responsibility to at least be able to be fair and subjective.

There you go again with calling my responses "unfair". I'm not sure that "I disagree with you" has anything to do with fairness and I really think you seem to have a weird thing about me expressing my opinion. It's very strange to me...

Howdy Doody Time wrote:Or you could simply not respond to OPs complaints.

When someone posts something on a discussion forum, it's an invitation to discuss. It would be a very sad thing for this forum to turn into into one where you simply could not express your opinion because some people find it unpopular, or only people that agree with you would respond. That's what happens on Facebook, and we all know how bad reinforced beliefs from only one side of the argument turns out...

I'm sorry that you disagree with me, and seem to have a problem with how I express it.

It's funny, the only time I got run off this forum was having the nerve to say "Hey the new Apple laptops look quite nice...". Strange world, when people have such a problem with someone saying they quite like a product...
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Re: New M1 iMac shipping with 256GB storage as standard!!!

Postby merlyn » Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:50 pm

It might be worth pointing out that the SSDs in question are not like this :

Image
They're like this :

Image
I put a guitar pick in for scale because if you see a picture of an M.2 SSD on the internet you may not realise how small they are. The picture above is a 1TB SSD. It uses PCIe3 instead of SATA so it's faster.

M.2 SSDs are not much more expensive than SATA SSDs -- shopping around M.2 drives are about £100 per 1TB.

Difficult then to cast £400 for 750GB as anything other then taking the piss.
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Re: New M1 iMac shipping with 256GB storage as standard!!!

Postby Will_m » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:13 pm

If Apple sticks with the SOC approach then I'd expect the 'tech specs' such as RAM/SSD space to remain pretty low. Apparently its more costly to manufacture this way.

They will pick up some efficiency this way as well but it looks like soldered in everything is the future. Maybe the MP will be the exception to this but everything else (M1 range) is pretty much the same parts in different shells.
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Re: New M1 iMac shipping with 256GB storage as standard!!!

Postby BobTheDog » Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:40 pm

I like Desmonds opinions, no hyperbole and fact based.
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