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A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

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Re: A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

Postby The Elf » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:37 pm

As one who finds OO languages utterly baffling and syntactically irritating (I once knew enough to write a 'Hello World' in Java) I can say that programming in MD is FAR easier than delving into C, or any of it's variations!

To put this in context, I'm a BASIC/COBOL/Assembler kinda guy. ;)

So I can cut MD some slack. But my... it could do with a re-think.
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Re: A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

Postby Eddy Deegan » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:02 am

n o i s e f l e ur wrote:Oh, it's not hard to create a sysex control in Lemur. The issues people were having was in creating full-fat sysex editors, capable of sending and receiving patch (bank) dumps etc.

Indeed ... which is where the use of Javascript is invaluable in Max of course.

Just found a couple of old development pics of my Lemur + Max editor for the Yamaha Motif XS:

Image

Image

Image

These were relatively early in development, but sadly I hit the limitations of the Lemur and semi-lost interest in continuing. I did progress it further at the time, and ended up with an extensive Max application which had dozens of popup windows for editing various parameters, though not all of them ended up being 'live'.

One problem I did solve at the time was that of the huge amounts of SysEx flying around all over the place. This was mostly done using JS widgets, but also in the Max 'circuits' logic. It was certainly capable of querying the XS, getting a full system dump and initialising the application such that the patches and performances on the XS were synchronised.

Edits in the application were also synchronised in real-time with the XS itself.

The last image above shows the 'BulkQuery' window there, which is in the process of receiving the dump from the XS, parsing it and making the data in it available to the various other windows.

I still have all the Max project files and relate Javascript though, so if anyone wants it to build on/use as reference just let me know.

A project I would very much like to revisit at a future date, only next time I'd write it as a framework such that you could plug different profiles into it for different synths, and I'd use C/C++ and OpenGL instead of a rapid development system like Max, which would make it massively smaller in size and far easier to distribute and maintain.

The Elf wrote:As one who finds OO languages utterly baffling and syntactically irritating ...

I hear you, especially on the 'syntactically irrirating' front. Not a fan of OO programming myself, though sometimes I have to dip in against my will!
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Re: A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

Postby n o i s e f l e ur » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:10 am

Eddy Deegan wrote:
I still have all the Max project files and relate Javascript though, so if anyone wants it to build on/use as reference just let me know.


Hmmm . . . sounds tempting Eddy! A very generous offer, if I may say so.

I have a couple of Yamaha hardware boxes I wouldn't mind being able to edit from the comfort of my screen. It'd mean having to learn javascript, but as that's something I've wanted to do for a while something like this could provide the incentive very nicely.

As it happens, I too reached the conclusion WRT to Lemur and its limitations as a basis for more complex applications - in that it's a superb app for building touchscreen GUIs but the heavy lifting is better done in something like Max (which I'm no expert in!). The last few years have seen some developments in working around Ableton Live sysex limitations too, so integration on that front (M4L) is doable now too.

Should I PM you about this, or do you want to post a link to Wetransfer or Dropbox or something?
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Re: A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

Postby Eddy Deegan » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:38 am

n o i s e f l e ur wrote:
Eddy Deegan wrote:I still have all the Max project files and relate Javascript though, so if anyone wants it to build on/use as reference just let me know.
Should I PM you about this, or do you want to post a link to Wetransfer or Dropbox or something?

I'll post a link to it later today (might be after work). :thumbup:

For what it's worth I'd not really done that much in Javascript before either. I didn't use any 'fancy' OO shizzle with the JS, I just wrote it as if it was C translated into JS.
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Re: A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

Postby n o i s e f l e ur » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:03 am

Good stuff! :)

I'm as proficient in C as I am in JS, so the distinction between a straight C-style transposition versus using OO concepts would be lost on me anyway hahaha!

I've reverse-engineered the odd M4L device and I grok Lemur shiznits . . . I daresay with the help of some online resources I can maybe make a fist of it. Maybe.

Cheers Eddy.
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Re: A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

Postby Eddy Deegan » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:48 am

I've dug out the archive of the stuff I did. Looking through it there is some cruft in there which I need to clean up and I'll also add a README file to kick off from. I'll do this tomorrow (Tuesday) and post it sometime in the afternoon/early evening.
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Re: A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

Postby n o i s e f l e ur » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:08 am

Thanks Eddy, there's no rush on my end so whenever you get around to it is more than fine by me. :)

Not that I'm the only person who might benefit of course - it may form the basis for other dabblers to attempt connecting older gear in a more streamlined fashion.

It's a great pity that Mi . . . no, wait! /checks website . . .

Heh. was going to say it's a pity MIDI Quest wasn't available in plugin form but having checked the website it appears that it actually is - and supports OSC for developing Lemur GUIs. Mind you, all the niceties are reserved for the top-tier Pro version which is damned spendy for those of us with just a few supported devices.

Still, it's an option in the time+programming chops versus money equation.
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Re: A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

Postby Eddy Deegan » Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:20 am

I've uploaded the whole thing (and more besides) and posted some details in a dedicated thread in the "Apps & Other Computers/OS" forum here:

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... 91#p635791
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Re: A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

Postby Rich Hanson » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:17 am

Ah, object oriented programming. As someone who started out his working life on Fortran, then straightahead C followed by Ada, object oriented languages came a bit of a shock - got thrown in the deep end with Java and was utterly baffled. However, once the penny dropped, I never looked back and wouldn't be without it now. Still straightforward procedural languages for low level stuff though (not that I get to do any of that any more).

Right, old fart reminiscing over, as you were :D
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Re: A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

Postby n o i s e f l e ur » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:14 pm

Reviving this just to inform anyone else that uses Lemur that some enterprising soul has trawled the binaries and discovered an undocumented feature of the Canvas object enabling image-file support.

https://liine.net/en/community/user-library/view/750/

Thus allowing people to construct the same sort of ugly skeuomorphic monstrosities as seen on similar apps.

Let the rejoicing / gnashing of teeth begin! :D
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Re: A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

Postby Eddy Deegan » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:54 am

Good find!

I'm now focussing on becoming self-sufficient and writing my various ambitions in C/C++ as native plugins (one idea in particular I think has legs) but it's always good to see people delving into this kind of stuff :thumbup:
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Re: A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

Postby n o i s e f l e ur » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:37 am

Thanks Eddy, wish I could take credit for it but I just happened to drop by their (what I thought was long defunct) forum and happened across it in a thread.

Some person going by the handle "Denoiser" is the one who discovered the function.

On the subject of your C/C++ endeavours . . . tell me it's a generic sysex editor for incredibly obtuse Yamaha workstation devices!
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Re: A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

Postby Eddy Deegan » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:05 am

n o i s e f l e ur wrote:On the subject of your C/C++ endeavours . . . tell me it's a generic sysex editor for incredibly obtuse Yamaha workstation devices!

It isn't, but it's not a million miles away from what I'm doing insofar as it's MIDI related. You've given me something to think about though, which is that if someone was to come up with a plugin that could really help with that kind of thing, regardless of the device in question, it could be a very cool project to work on.

Something that an end user can use those MIDI implentation charts and sysex specifications for the desired device to configure, and with the ability to load templates if someone else already did all or part of it for the device in question.

I like that, a lot. How it would work on the GUI level I've not even began to imagine. In fact that's the biggest challenge as I see it and it's a huge one, but I've filed it in my head to think about more once I've got some traction on my concept though I understand that doesn't help you in the short term.

I'm really liking the Juce docs. No promises whatsoever at this time but your suggestion is not lost on me at all.
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Re: A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

Postby n o i s e f l e ur » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:01 am

No worries Eddy, I'm actually in no great hurry to get stuck into the Yamaha workstation in question as I've quite a few other toys to keep me occupied. In fact, I bought that particular machine on somewhat of a mad whim - I may even put it up for sale. It will depend on if it brings much of its own texture to the arsenal I assembled over the last year.

I was very lucky in that I found a pretty decent sysex editor / controller for my FS1R, and like the stuff you were kind enough to make available to me, is a M4L device, and thus provides a useful reference point to me for your work should I ever get around to attempting a build myself. That's, of course, on top of its innate utility.

I agree that GUI / UX work is a much harder thing to develop than most would think at first glance. I found this out the hard way developing a GUI framework for Lemur. As in, I have the majority of the working code sitting on my HDD for years in an unfinished state but I ran out of mental steam and motivation to really turn it into a Lemur "app" - and never picked it back up again. Though I might have a go at completing it, just to be done with it! First I need to remember the trick to making the Lemur editor reentrant on Windows as that makes the task exponentially easier to accomplish.

I confess I've been tempted to install the Juce frameworks just to see what can be done there in terms of MIDI controllers, lacking hardcore coding chops, but I'm leary of getting sidetracked away from music production again onto another wild goose chase completely outside my wheelhouse.

Anyway cheers big fella, appreciate you taking the time to revisit this. :)
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Re: A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

Postby The Elf » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:58 pm

The promotion of this thread has prompted to me to add a note to my comments about MIDI Designer Pro...

I have just added the Stream Byter plug-in to MD, and this has enabled me to parse bulk sys-ex dumps into individual control messages and vice-versa. It's a cracking addition to the capabilities of this software.

I now have an editor panel for my MKS-70 V4 that updates all of the on-screen controls from a patch change to reflect the currently selected Tones/Patch (like a motorized PG-800!).

Not much value to starting a new thread, so hope you don't mind the update.
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Re: A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

Postby blinddrew » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:07 pm

The Elf wrote:I have just added the Stream Byter plug-in to MD, and this has enabled me to parse bulk sys-ex dumps into individual control messages and vice-versa.
Star Trek called, they want their script back! :D
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Re: A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

Postby The Elf » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:12 pm

blinddrew wrote:
The Elf wrote:I have just added the Stream Byter plug-in to MD, and this has enabled me to parse bulk sys-ex dumps into individual control messages and vice-versa.
Star Trek called, they want their script back! :D
I never mentioned inverting the tacheon beam! Let's leave that for another time! :mrgreen:
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Re: A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

Postby n o i s e f l e ur » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:54 pm

Oooh, that does look bloody interesting - nice find there, The Elf.
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Re: A Windows-equivalent for Hexler's TouchOSC

Postby OneWorld » Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:49 pm

robinv wrote:Yep - Emulator Pro by SmithsonMartin - http://www.smithsonmartin.com - it's a beautiful piece of software that keeps on getting better and better. I included a review of it in my multi-touch video - http://youtu.be/4G4jIpdTuhY

Do you have any experience of using the Elephant software and the MS Surface Dial? That seems a really handy solution. I can use the Dial on my Yamaha MOX in a similar fashion but having a dial right at my fingertips instead of keep reaching over to the MOX seems even more convenient. Bye bye mixing desk!
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