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196Khz from ASIO4ALL?? Is this possible?

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196Khz from ASIO4ALL?? Is this possible?

Postby Kolakube » Thu May 06, 2010 4:20 pm

Hi,

For years I have used hardware. I mixed down in the box and used a MOTU 24 to get my hardware into my PC. I have since sold my hardware (Best thing I ever did for me personally) and had no further need for my MOTU so sold that too.

So, now without a sound card I am using my motherboards built in sound chip with ASIO4ALL.

However I have took the opportunity of getting my room decorated with all the space zapping hardware gone so for that last few weeks have been running on a minimal set up.

Just today I have just plugged in my Apoggee DAC to my PC and cant get a sample rate over 48Khz. Is this likely to be a limitation of ASIO4ALL?

If so can anyone recommend a cheap sound card that will allow me to reach 196Khz?

Cheers.
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Re: 196Khz from ASIO4ALL?? Is this possible?

Postby Pete Kaine » Thu May 06, 2010 4:25 pm

M-Audio Audiophile 192 for around £120.
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Re: 196Khz from ASIO4ALL?? Is this possible?

Postby matt keen » Thu May 06, 2010 4:28 pm

kolakube wrote:Hi,
If so can anyone recommend a cheap sound card that will allow me to reach 196Khz?

Cheers.


What for?
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Re: 196Khz from ASIO4ALL?? Is this possible?

Postby Kolakube » Thu May 06, 2010 6:29 pm

What for?


Really?
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Re: 196Khz from ASIO4ALL?? Is this possible?

Postby Aled Hughes » Thu May 06, 2010 6:39 pm

kolakube wrote:
What for?


Really?


Well, it is a fair question in all honesty. Why do you feel the need to record at 192kHz? Seeing as CD and MP3 audio is 44.1kHz, so your mixes will most probably converted as such, are you really going to reap any benefits from recording at 192kHz? Recording at 192kHz will also gobble up your hard drives much quicker than 44.1kHz, so once again, is it worth it?

I think (though will be happily proven wrong!) that a lot of top studios record music at 'only' 44.1kHz (48kHz being the standard for film work), but if you feel that going 192 is the next step you need to take, then by all means go for it.


I tried it once on my old machine and it just made the screen wobble a bit.


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Re: 196Khz from ASIO4ALL?? Is this possible?

Postby Remeniz » Thu May 06, 2010 6:46 pm

Really?


Yea. Why do you want to sample audio at 196Khz??? The mind boggles.

The amount of hard drive space your going to need to work 'a few' tracks is going to be a lot.

Personally I don't no how your going to audibly benefit from sampling at 196Khz. Unless maybe it's a few seconds of audio and you want to change the pitch/tone of it?
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Re: 196Khz from ASIO4ALL?? Is this possible?

Postby Exalted Wombat » Thu May 06, 2010 7:30 pm

kolakube wrote:Hi,

For years I have used hardware. I mixed down in the box and used a MOTU 24 to get my hardware into my PC. I have since sold my hardware (Best thing I ever did for me personally) and had no further need for my MOTU so sold that too.

So, now without a sound card I am using my motherboards built in sound chip with ASIO4ALL.

However I have took the opportunity of getting my room decorated with all the space zapping hardware gone so for that last few weeks have been running on a minimal set up.

Just today I have just plugged in my Apoggee DAC to my PC and cant get a sample rate over 48Khz. Is this likely to be a limitation of ASIO4ALL?

If so can anyone recommend a cheap sound card that will allow me to reach 196Khz?

Cheers.

This all seems a bit muddled. You had a MOTU 24 but sold it because you didn't need to interface audio with your computer. But now you DO need to get audio in and out, so you've bought something made by Apogee? WHat, exactly? Doesn't it have an ASIO driver of its own? If it's capable of 192KHz, it seems incredible that it would have to rely on a generic driver?

Then there's the whole question of why anyone in their right mind would WANT 192KhZ!

Tell us a bit more about what you're doing (or want to do) and this might all start making sense.
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Re: 196Khz from ASIO4ALL?? Is this possible?

Postby Kolakube » Thu May 06, 2010 8:42 pm

@ Ramirez,


No I don't want to record at that rate I want to playback at that rate. If it was unnecessary, why would Apoogee make such a device?

@ Remerize Productions

(Do you two know each other) No I dont want to record at 192. Just playback.

@ Wombat

Its you thats Muddled. The MOTU 24 is a soundacrd with an external 19" rackmount that lets you input and output 24 quater inch jacks for hardware. When I sold my hardware I had no need for the 24 ins and outs.

I bought the Apogee DAC (as said in my first post.)

I dont think it has its own ASIO driver. It more re clocks the feed from the soundcard as far as Im aware but in not much of a techy.

Well I am in my right mind. Perhaps ask why a professional firm such as Apoggee make a device that supports such high resolutions. Then you could Email all the major DAWs such as Cubase, Logic, Live etc etc that ALL support 192khz.
So it isnt just me, there are people with degree's out there and managing directors of global firms that think its a good idea too.



@ All of you. As I have said to some of you individually, what the hell is the point of my device featuring this and all the DAWs I know of if its not worth having?


Also a DAC does NOT record sound. I honestly cannot understand how you all so confused thinking I want to record at 192khz? Do any of you even know what a DAC is?? I mean I appreciate the help and all but your all off on a flying tangent.
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Re: 196Khz from ASIO4ALL?? Is this possible?

Postby Remeniz » Thu May 06, 2010 9:26 pm

kolakube wrote:Also a DAC does NOT record sound. I honestly cannot understand how you all so confused thinking I want to record at 192khz? Do any of you even know what a DAC is?? I mean I appreciate the help and all but your all off on a flying tangent.

I know what a DAC is - I have plenty of them in my set up. So why do you want to play back at 192Khz? What kind of listening equipment have you got?
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Re: 196Khz from ASIO4ALL?? Is this possible?

Postby grab » Thu May 06, 2010 9:37 pm

Maybe you're using out-of-date drivers, or some default ones that came with Windows. Check the Apogee website for the latest drivers for your hardware - link is http://support.apogeedigital.com .

Or is it one that takes a feed from a SPDIF connection? In that case you're limited to what SPDIF and your soundcard can do.

But still, why 192kHz? What do you think it'll get you? Do you think your ears can hear up to 96kHz? And can your speakers get to those frequencies? (Hint: If you answer yes to the first one then you're wrong; and if you answer yes to the second one then you're wrong unless your speakers have ultrasonic transducers retrofitted.)

Sure, you're not recording at 192kHz. But do you ever need to freeze/render tracks to free up the processor? Then you're using 4.5 times as much disk space as you would be at 44kHz. And do you find that you can hardly do anything before you run out of processor? There's your problem. (Oh, I forgot, you've not managed to do it yet. Well if you do ever get it there, see how it goes. Good luck.)

The fact that the equipment may be able to do it is no reason at all to insist on using it. My last car had a towbar, but I didn't feel I had to attach a caravan every time I went to the shops. And as for your argument of "why would they have made it if I didn't need it?", have you ever read the Innovations catalogue...? ;)
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Re: 196Khz from ASIO4ALL?? Is this possible?

Postby Kolakube » Thu May 06, 2010 9:45 pm

@ Ramirez Productions.

I use a PC running Live 8 connected via firewire to my Apogee Dac then onto my Focal Twin monitors. My room is fully treated to get it as good as I can.

@ Grab

(Oh, I forgot, you've not managed to do it yet. Well check it out and see how it goes. Good luck.)


Have we met before?? Well why the sarcasm??? Or are you just following the trend of this thread and feel the need?

Why buy a car tow bar and not use it?

Also, how am I using 5 times as much disk space when im not recording anything??
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Re: 196Khz from ASIO4ALL?? Is this possible?

Postby Remeniz » Thu May 06, 2010 10:03 pm

I think I get you now.

You want to playback audio from Live via your DAC at 192Khz.

You can go into the drivers for your DAC and change it's internal sampling rate but while Live is connected to the DAC's drivers it can only sample at the DAW's sample rate or lower, I think.

The project in Live has to be resampled to 192Khz for you to play back at that rate. Re-sampling to this rate can take ages. You can just go into the Live's settings and set the project sampling rate to 192Khz but the project won't play at the correct speed.

So go into Live and set the project sampling rate and set it in the DAC's software, if not done so already.
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Re: 196Khz from ASIO4ALL?? Is this possible?

Postby grab » Thu May 06, 2010 10:13 pm

That wasn't actually sarcasm - just writing as I went. Although yes, you'll need luck and a following wind to get any sort of performance out of an average PC at 192kHz.

Re my towbar, it came with the car. I didn't pay extra for it, but I didn't need it so it was never used. The car was also capable of doing 110mph, according to the official stats, but I never used that either. There's a pattern here...

Re disk space, if you render a track then it gets saved to disk. This uses up disk space in precisely the same way as if you recorded with two mics at that sample rate.
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Re: 196Khz from ASIO4ALL?? Is this possible?

Postby Mowens800 » Thu May 06, 2010 10:48 pm

what speakers do you have? (ETA: just spotted them in a post above... so up to 40kHz).

Mine can apparently go up to 30kHz, but my ears only go up to 20kHz so there does not seem to be much point hitting 196kHz.

Also, you are not recording sounds, you are using internal sound sources... what is the sampling rate for these?

Essentially, you will take a 44.1kHz sample, up sample it to 196kHz (no sound improvement, just extra binary numbers and resources use), you monitor at 30Khz or so, you only hear realistically up to 18khz or so to export and sample to a CD at 44.1kHz.

Do you not see how this is not really necessary. You would get a better 'sound quality' at 44.1Khz as you will have more resources at your disposal to shape your sound and run your system stably and latency free.

I would always recommend 24bit and 44.1 kHz as a minimum... 88.2 at a push, but 196 is a waste.
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Re: 196Khz from ASIO4ALL?? Is this possible?

Postby Kolakube » Thu May 06, 2010 11:26 pm

@ Remeniz Productions.

Yes thats exactly it mate. I want to play back at 192Khz.

I know how to set up my DAW though. And my DAC. The problem is no matter what I try ASIO4ALL doenst seem to want to go over 48Khz. I am guessing this is a limitation of ASIO4ALL. If so I need to try another soundcard but dont want to spend much as the DAC makes the stock card on my Mobo sound pro enough.

@ Grab

If I took you the wrong way I apologise.

I think comparing a tow bar on your car to me wanting the very best monitoring I can get is plain daft. I want the best I can get from my set up. Just like a Grand Prix driver wants the very best as everything counts. No room for tow bars of other un functional crap to be bolted on his car. Its an extreme thing, much like my monitoring set up is to me.
Comparing it with you driving to ASDA in a second hand Escort is not ever close, but the grand prix car is.

Also im not talking about rendering anything fella.

@ Mowens

If there is absolutely no point what so ever in 192Khz, I struggle to think why it has been invented. I accept your point re how high the human ear can hear but perhaps with 192Khz there will be more detail? I dont know, as said im not that techy.

There has got to be some use for it in pro audio. more detail perhaps?

@ Everyone

Guys, I recently spent 2 grand on my monitoring alone. Then a grand on my DAC and another grand on my room treatment. 4 grand to me is a lot of money. My car is not worth that to give an idea. It stands to reason I want the best audio quality I can have.
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