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Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base :

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Re: Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base :

Postby Goddard » Tue May 07, 2013 5:37 am

Hey V, I hear ya.

Meanwhile, also on the horizon is external PCIe, with a MADI interface having both e-PCIe and USB3 connectivity supposedly coming soon from RME and e-PCIe host cards already available, along with the possibility of networking systems together over e-PCIe.

And, due to the way Apple and especially Intel have been keeping a rein on TB, I've heard it's only a matter of time before laptops and desktops with e-PCIe ports onboard finally start appearing, so things may get real interesting real soon.
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Re: Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base :

Postby TAFKAT » Wed May 08, 2013 5:11 pm

Hey G,

ePCIe will be interesting to watch , TB has been little more than an afterthought on Windows and I have serious doubts of it reaching a market level for it to be viable for many if not most on Windows.

Intel should have allowed the release of PCIe 4X only capability years ago , instead of locking it to the current spec. Most of us in the industry couldn't care less about the Displayport integration, especially on the desktop.

I think RME's latest move is hinting what they think of TB as a cross platform interconnectivity.

V.
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Re: Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base :

Postby Lodious » Wed May 15, 2013 11:11 am

Can I ask a simple question? When you are talking about using the "TC applied supplied Version 4.0 Driver", is this something ordinary consumers can use, and if so, how would we get it? Do we have to wait for (for example) Focusrite to rollout an updated driver which uses it, or can it be downloaded from TC applied's website (I had a quick look and could not see it)?

Thanks,
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Re: Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base :

Postby Pete Kaine » Wed May 15, 2013 5:16 pm

You need to wait until the respective companies roll it into an update for you. I believe that Focusrite managed this with the last build of Mixcontrol from what I remember.
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Re: Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base :

Postby Lodious » Thu May 16, 2013 2:31 pm

Thanks for the info Pete.
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Re: Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base :

Postby Goddard » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:53 am

TAFKAT wrote:
Re the Roland, I have given up asking for a test unit, Roland are obviously not interested .

Perhaps Roland should seriously consider their participation now in view of Sam Inglis' assessment of the touted "industry-leading low latency USB performance" of their newest Studio Capture interface in the current issue of SOS.

Kudos to Sam and SOS for telling it like it really is (er, isn't?)!
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Re: Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base :

Postby TAFKAT » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:48 pm

That review totally slipped under my radar , tho I had spoken to Sam during his testing phase while doing the review.

+1 Kudos to Sam, this is what we need in regards to product reviews to not only give the end users the real situation in regards to delivered performance, but also remind the manufacturers that they can be held accountable when the performance doesn't match their spin.

I suspect now that any chance of getting a test unit in my hands would be even further away ;-)

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Re: Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base :

Postby Goddard » Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:09 am

Something is nagging at me about all this. Roland certainly know how to design USB interfaces (iirc they were the first out with USB1 and USB2 interfaces) and have the resources and expertise for firmware and driver development.
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Re: Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base :

Postby TAFKAT » Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:25 am

It comes down to the USB controllers / drivers Roland utilise G, I would be very surprised they have developed their own.

I suspect its the same XMOS USB controller all of the other manufacturers utilise, so its down to who has developed the drivers.

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Re: Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base :

Postby Goddard » Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:10 am

TAFKAT wrote:It comes down to the USB controllers / drivers Roland utilise G, I would be very surprised they have developed their own.

I suspect its the same XMOS USB controller all of the other manufacturers utilise, so its down to who has developed the drivers.

V.C

Sorry to disagree V, but I'm pretty certain you are wrong about Roland buying-in their USB controller and not doing their own driver development.
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Re: Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base :

Postby Goddard » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:50 am

(Too late to edit earlier post)

Just to be clear when talking about "USB controllers", a distinction should probably be made between a "USB controller" (more properly, a "USB interface controller") as the component handling stream interfacing between the USB and the core internal digital components in an audio/MIDI interface such as ADC and DAC (codecs) and mixer/fx DSP logic, and a "USB audio/MIDI microcontroller" like the XMOS or Archwave chips (or, in the case of FW interfaces, TC-AT DICE family chips) which integrates a USB (or FW) interface controller (or interfacing links for an external USB interface controller) plus additionally includes core logic (such as an embededded RISC core(S)) and related interfaces and functionalities for the audio/MIDI interface.

My understanding and experience is that while Roland may utilize bought-in USB interface controllers such as from Renesas(NEC), TI, etc., they do develop and produce their own in-house "audio/MIDI microcontroller" logic and ASICs and drivers. And I'm fairly certain the same applies for Yamaha/Steinberg gear as well.
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Re: Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base :

Postby TAFKAT » Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:50 am

G,

Its all inconsequential whether Roland use 3rd party or do in house, IMO, its all in the delivery or lack there of. If we can get confirmation either way, that will be of interest to some, but personally I couldn't care less to be honest.

Everyone seems to think they can design a better mouse trap when it comes to USB2, Antelope are the latest making outlandish claims about the superiority of their proprietary USB2 controller in regards to low latency performance. Have they delivered ? Who knows, even tho the unit was reviewed recently in SOS with a reported 7.82 RTL @ 64 / 44.1 , ( RME UFX is 5.056 at the same settings ) there is absolutely no indication of how it actually performed at that latency. Reading in at some ongoing threads it varies from being a basket case to a giddy shill infested game changer. I am betting its somewhere in between , but until I get in front of one, I'll reserve comment.

IMO - The only company who has developed and delivered USB2 performance that is comparable to the better FW units is RME !

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Re: Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base :

Postby Pete Kaine » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:08 am

Well I was going to try and keep away from this, but seeing as Vin's being called out and Sam is being questioned...

Goddard wrote:
Perhaps Roland should seriously consider their participation now in view of Sam Inglis' assessment of the touted "industry-leading low latency USB performance" of their newest Studio Capture interface in the current issue of SOS.

Kudos to Sam and SOS for telling it like it really is (er, isn't?)!

Which issue no. is that exactly, I don't see it in the one in front of me and I'd really like to read it right now!

Goddard wrote:Something is nagging at me about all this. Roland certainly know how to design USB interfaces (iirc they were the first out with USB1 and USB2 interfaces) and have the resources and expertise for firmware and driver development.

I'd contest every statement you made in that sentence. Their drivers on everything I've had my hands on have under performed to the point of being unusable. I've an open case that's been going on for 3/4 months now where their Japan support has buck passed and failed to resolve it time after time.

Uk support is superb, but if you hit a problem that requires Japan to fix it, you can go whistle.

TAFKAT wrote:
Its all inconsequential whether Roland use 3rd party or do in house, IMO, its all in the delivery or lack there of.

Exactly that.
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Re: Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base :

Postby il Padrino » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:36 am

Vince, is there any test that I can do on my Octa Capture that can help out here? If you message me any details, I'll see what I can do. I'm running Studio 64 bit on a Windows 7 64 OS, as well as Cubase Studio 5 64 bit. No worries if not!
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Re: Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base :

Postby TAFKAT » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:45 am

Pete,

Sam's review of the Roland Studio Capture is in the August 2013 Edition.

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