You are here

Gadzooks! Apple confirm move to Intel rumours.

For anything relating to music-making on Windows computers, with lots of FAQs. Moderated by Martin Walker.

Moderator: Moderators

Re: Gadzooks! Apple confirm move to Intel rumours.

Postby Rick Taylor » Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:53 am

lickthestar wrote:I read on sweetwaters site that macs will run windows xp, but osx will not be made available for PC's. So this changes very little for PC users, other than giving them the incentive to buy the only platform that will run both operating systems. I predict that mac users will be effected not at all, and will still be snobs. That also means no Logic for PC.


Unless it's a "special" PC.

Ah well... it was a pleasant fantasy. I guess you'll be able to pick up the former "special" pcs at bargain basement prices for a while.
Rick Taylor
Regular
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:00 am

Re: Gadzooks! Apple confirm move to Intel rumours.

Postby milan » Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:33 am

One thing is for sure - $$$ upgrades for Mac users + (probably) some compatibility/stability issues in the beginning - which leads to new $$$ upgrades...
User avatar
milan
New here
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Gadzooks! Apple confirm move to Intel rumours.

Postby Rick Taylor » Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:51 am

mozzer wrote:One thing is for sure - $$$ upgrades for Mac users + (probably) some compatibility/stability issues in the beginning - which leads to new $$$ upgrades...

That's sort of amusing. The bottom drops out of the machines they're using now and they have to pay to upgrade to run essentally the same software they could run on an unspecial pc.

:) Must be a drag being "special".
Rick Taylor
Regular
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:00 am

Re: Gadzooks! Apple confirm move to Intel rumours.

Postby RedRum » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:10 am

I wonder what dear ole Bill Gates thinks of this...
RedRum
New here
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Gadzooks! Apple confirm move to Intel rumours.

Postby UNIT393 » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:32 am

RedRum wrote:I wonder what dear ole Bill Gates thinks of this...

If Windows will run on a Mac then I'd guess Bill is going to be delighted....
User avatar
UNIT393
New here
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:00 am
Location: Australia
Funk It

Re: Gadzooks! Apple confirm move to Intel rumours.

Postby Rick Taylor » Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:51 pm

UNIT393 wrote:
RedRum wrote:I wonder what dear ole Bill Gates thinks of this...

If Windows will run on a Mac then I'd guess Bill is going to be delighted....

I'd imagine that Bill's making sure of that. {XP for Macintosh... {I wonder if it's in beta yet}}
Rick Taylor
Regular
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:00 am

Re: Gadzooks! Apple confirm move to Intel rumours.

Postby BigAl » Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:41 pm

Could this be a run up to a Microsoft/MAC merger or takeover???

http://www.calebgroom.com/images/misc/gates-jobs-tux.jpg
User avatar
BigAl
Regular
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2002 1:00 am
Location: The King's Height

Re: Gadzooks! Apple confirm move to Intel rumours.

Postby milan » Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:20 pm

BigAl wrote:Could this be a run up to a Microsoft/MAC merger or takeover???

http://www.calebgroom.com/images/misc/gates-jobs-tux.jpg

:bouncy: :headbang:
User avatar
milan
New here
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Gadzooks! Apple confirm move to Intel rumours.

Postby RedRum » Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:40 pm

UNIT393 wrote:
RedRum wrote:I wonder what dear ole Bill Gates thinks of this...

If Windows will run on a Mac then I'd guess Bill is going to be delighted....

no way this is going to happen...

Apple will make sure that Macs only run OSX using hardware methods (similarly to microsoft did with the xbox for people not to run linux, you need to seriously hack it to do it).

I would say that Billy might be a bit concerned...
presumambly macs will be similarly affordable with pc systems (the G4 and G5 were one of the reason macs were expensive) and in all honesty, OSX is a delight to work on.

now if I could have PC processing power and prices with a brilliant OS such as the OSX (plus the Mac stylish boxes), I would hands down go for it.

I reckon, many others would, this is were Jobs counts on, to double or triple Apple's market share (which is at the pathetic 2.6% at the moment...)
RedRum
New here
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Gadzooks! Apple confirm move to Intel rumours.

Postby E D » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:50 pm

Gosh. Some of you really are quite (and unessacerily) aggressive towards mac users, even without provocation! It almost intimidates me be here in the PC forum, whilst being the owner of a mac!

The dicision wether to buy a Mac or PC really comes in if you value the extra luxuries as worth the extra cost. It doesn't make me a snob to happen to think it worth it.
User avatar
E D
Regular
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 1:00 am
Location: London

Re: Gadzooks! Apple confirm move to Intel rumours.

Postby Martin Walker » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:30 pm

ED - I think you've misinterpreted the majority of comments here, which are not aimed at Mac users, but at Apple itself and its 'about face' after years of claiming that clock speed isn't the most important factor, and comparing current Macs to Intel-based PCs to show much more capable they are.

I personally don't mind what type of computer I run as long as it does what I want it to. However, when these new Macs come out we'll all finally be able to see just how important (or not) the operating system is, since much of the hardware (processor, associated chipset, RAM, hard drives, and so on) will be almost identical in both machines.

By the way, what are those extra luxuries you think worth the extra cost?


Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 17342
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: Gadzooks! Apple confirm move to Intel rumours.

Postby steveman » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:30 pm

Phil Schiller (Apple's head of marketing) says that it'll be entirely possible to install Windows XP if you so wish.

Macs aren't more expensive than PC's because of the G4 / G5 chips, the G4 is certainly cheaper than the Intel equivalent, G5 G5s are comparably priced to their equivalent. Macs are more expensive because they include the cost of software (you know, OSX) & hardware R & D. Dell's R&D consists mainly of finding ways to make their machines cheaper.

Apple's market share (that's sales of new machines, not the installed no. of machines) is around 3.5 % now.

As E D said, there seems to be lot of unnecessary aggression here towards (us) Mac users. I could have made some sarcy comment about installing Windows in my 1st sentence - but I didn't.

PC fanatics and Mac fanatics are as bad as each other.
steveman
Regular
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2002 1:00 am
Location: London - UK

Re: Gadzooks! Apple confirm move to Intel rumours.

Postby steveman » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:40 pm

no way this is going to happen...

Phil Schiller (Apple's head of marketing) says that it'll be entirely possible to install Windows XP if you so wish.
(which is at the pathetic 2.6% at the moment...)

Apple's market share (that's sales of new machines, not the installed no. of machines) is about 3.5% now.

As E D said, there seems to be lot of unnecessary aggression here towards (us) Mac users. I could have made some sarcy comment about installing Windows in my 1st sentence - but I didn't.

PC fanatics and Mac fanatics are as bad as each other.

Some Techy Stuff from a developer who's had their hands on one :

" ... First, the thing is fast. Native apps readily beat a single 2.7 G5, and sometimes beat duals. Really.
All the iLife apps other than iTunes, plus all the other apps that come with the OS are already universal binaries....
They are using a Pentium 4 660. This is a 3.6 GHz chip. It supports 64 bit extensions, but Apple does not support that *yet*. The 660 is a single core processor. However, the engineers said that this chip would not be used in a shipping product and that we need to look at Intel's roadmap for that time to see what Apple will ship.
It uses DDR-2 RAM at 533 MHz. SATA-2. It is using Intel GMA 900 integrated graphics and it supports Quartz Extreme. The Intel 900 doesn't compare favorably to any shipping card from ATi or nVidia. The Apple engineers says the dev kit will work with regular PC graphics cards, but that you need a driver. Apple does not write ANY graphics drivers. They just submit bug reports to ATi/nVidia. So, when we asked where to get drivers for better cards the engineers said "The ATI guys are here." He's right, they've been in the compatibility lab several times.
It has FireWire 400, but not 800. USB 2 as well. USB 2 booting is supported, FireWire booting is not. NetBoot works.
The machines do not have Open Firmware. They use a Phoenix BIOS. That's right, a Mac with a BIOS...."

"They run Windows fine. All the chipset is standard Intel stuff, so you can download drivers and run XP on the box."

Of course these are the developer boxes, will have to wait and see if it's any harder on the real thing.

"I've been talking to and watching a lot of devs. There are a lot of apps from big names running in the Compatibility lab already. Some people face more pain, sure, but Jobs wasn't kidding when he said that this transition would be less painful than OS 9 to OS X or 68K to PPC.
Game devs seem optimistic. They see porting Windows/x86 to Mac/x86 as much easier. They look forward to the day they don't have to support PPC"

I think this part sums the situation up :

"...This transition is not about current P4 vs G5. It is about the future directions of the processor families. Intel is committed to desktop/notebook and server in a big way. Freescale/IBM are chasing the embedded market and console market. Apple would have been in a lurch in 2 years."
steveman
Regular
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2002 1:00 am
Location: London - UK

Re: Gadzooks! Apple confirm move to Intel rumours.

Postby *INACTIVE USER* » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:05 pm

This "switch" thing is really hilarious. Most Apple fans seem to forget that Apple is about 3% of the desktop market. (this comes from macworld) And I don't think it has that number in the server market.

All this stuff about Intel making a special cpu, porting all application, Sir Bill sobbing of fear... Do the math!

- running a silicon fab cost money. Intel makes 70% of all cpu's.
- if a mac can run windoze, then why port your soft to 3% of the market when that slice can just as well run your soft under windoze?
- Sir Bill has another 3% of customers without spending marketing money, Sir Steve will do that for him. Not that he cares much, M$ owns a nice share of Apple.

Macs are becoming a range of expensive pc's that run another OS than windoze. And because the driver problem stays just the same, using cheap pc hardware will not be possible unless you run windoze.

The only clear winner here is Intel that gains a few % marketshare. Apple won't use AMD because they don't make the whole chipset (nor motherboard) like Intel does.

So what is in it for Apple?
- they can lay off some hardware developers
- they get cheaper hardware if they go with standard stuff
- they get some Intel maketing dollars for the "Intel Inside" deal

And the customers?
- those with a PPC mac will be left up the proverbial creek pretty soon
- those willing to upgrade are going to wait and see before commiting themselves and maybe missing out some productivity
- in the long run, all faithful mac users will have to buy all new gear and soft, some maybe very soon
*INACTIVE USER*
Regular
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:00 am
Expert in non-working solutions

Re: Gadzooks! Apple confirm move to Intel rumours.

Postby Rick Taylor » Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:49 am

RedRum wrote:Apple will make sure that Macs only run OSX using hardware methods (similarly to microsoft did with the xbox for people not to run linux, you need to seriously hack it to do it).


People will pay extra for a pc with limitations?

now if I could have PC processing power and prices with a brilliant OS such as the OSX (plus the Mac stylish boxes), I would hands down go for it.


How will people build their own? What's to stop folk cracking the os? {There's about 60 zillion pc case styles. Many of them better than mac designs.}

It makes no sense for someone to buy a pc with a limiter on it. People will simply go with a pc that they can do anything they want with.

Why would macintosh limit themselves? The os is good enough to become a major competitor. To me it sounds like they're selling a pc with the equivelant of a hardware dongle on it. Why don't they just sell the os with a dongle? They could set up a dx/directshow, etc emulation layer and run pc applications.
Rick Taylor
Regular
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:00 am

PreviousNext