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Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

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Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:03 pm

I compiled my list of components listed in a Computer Shopper spec your own Pc article, then compared those to Scan’s suggestions, they matched-up pretty much identically. Success, that was easy I thought, however.

I then showed the spec to my, trusted, local PC shop guy, who repairs and builds computers, and he did not rate the Asus Mother Boards or the Corsair DDR4 Vengeance memory, stating that the boards are unreliable, (he has had many back to fix/replace, often before one year has even elapsed) as was the memory.

He said that these components are for gamers who do not use their PC’s all day long, week in week out and are therefore not suitable for an Audio/Video Workstation. I must admit, as far as Computer Shopper is concerned, they always seen to mention gaming (PC’s) when recommending components, so he seems to know what he is talking about as I did not prompt him.

I will post his spec if anyone is interested, Peter maybe, if so can you second-guess what will be on his list?

& does he know what he is talking about?

This is my spec:

Audio & Video editing PC workstaion

Mother Board: Asus PRIME Z270-A

CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K, Kaby Lake, Quad Core

Graphic Card: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050

Memory: Corsair DDR4 GeForce Vengeance LPX. 16GB (2x8GB)

SSD: B250GB Samsung 850 EVO

Storage: WD Blue 1TB Desktop Hard Disk Drive - 7200 RPM SATA

PSU: Straight Power 10 400W

CASE: Coolermaster Silencio 352 Matt Black micro-ATX Mini Tower

FIREWIRE: TI chipset FireWire 800/400 PCIe Adaptor Card from Lycom PE-107
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Re: Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby Guest271017 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:24 pm

I just completed basically the same build, all specs from Scan. Did my homework and read all reviews before purchasing any components and I feel confident in the result.

For the SSD, you might want to consider the 950, it has the x16 Optane speed, the 850 doesn't.

I bought the 850 before finding this out and ordered a 950 after the fact but found SSD for OS won't work for me. I cancelled the 950 and will use the 850 for my project drive. Although cost wasn't a determining factor, I'll wait for the Optane drives to come down in price before I reconsider.

You don't mention a cooler. I grabbed the one off the Scan specs. With this cooler, you need low profile RAM or it will interfere. The mounting of it requires close attention to directions, there are like 3 different methods depending on socket type. For this build, you don't need the rubber patch, but you do need the extra packet of spacer washers.

Scythe SCNJ-4000 Ninja 4 CPU Cooler Heatsink 120mm

I seriously doubt a company offering warrantied goods would use shite parts. Everything I saw on the 270 was good.

Another thing I learned is the W7 requires a patch to run on this chip and get updates. Info's out there.

Quite chuffed about the build and results.
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Re: Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby Guest271017 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:35 pm

One other thing is the power supply. The one you list doesn't seem to be modular. No big deal in and of itself, but it's made by BeQuiet. After seeing the QC of their cases ( I've got a rivet wracking the HDD bay) I'd be leary of anything from them.

I went with this one, no niggles.

EVGA SuperNOVA 550 G2, 80+ GOLD 550W
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Re: Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby Pete Kaine » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:45 pm

LdashD wrote:I then showed the spec to my, trusted, local PC shop guy, who repairs and builds computers, and he did not rate the Asus Mother Boards or the Corsair DDR4 Vengeance memory, stating that the boards are unreliable, (he has had many back to fix/replace, often before one year has even elapsed) as was the memory.

So he doesn't rate two of the biggest tier 1 brands on the planet?

Fair enough, he's entirely entitled to his opinion, although I'll state flat out that a lot of support issues are down to nothing more than incompatibilities or failed setups. I don't particularly get along with Gigabyte kit who are the other tier 1 motherboard supplier, but for all the issues I have had, I'm sure if I went with a different set of parts (Micron or Balistix memory for example) then it'd all be more trouble free.

Some kit just doesn't play nicely together, and as an systems tech you garner your own faves over the years as you get used to the quirks of the hardware.

My stats here however show return rates on both Asus boards and Corsair memory is far below industry standard return rates of 3%... I'd go as far to say as the models I pick are below my own 1% return rate requirement otherwise I'd pull them and switch to something else.

Just to note, we sell through tens of thousands of sticks of RAM every month, so our sample pool size isn't exactly small.

LdashD wrote:He said that these components are for gamers who do not use their PC’s all day long, week in week out and are therefore not suitable for an Audio/Video Workstation. I must admit, as far as Computer Shopper is concerned, they always seen to mention gaming (PC’s) when recommending components, so he seems to know what he is talking about as I did not prompt him.

I will post his spec if anyone is interested, Peter maybe, if so can you second-guess what will be on his list?

Aye, I'm interested if for no other reason than "shots fired" ;)
On a more serious note, sure, I'm always intrigued to see other peoples specs.

Can I guess up front?

I'd take a punt at a Supermicro board & Xeon chips, because given the comments so far he seems like the kind of person who thinks workstations must have "workstation grade" components and the price tag to match, without understanding why Xeon is a cluster **** for A/V systems.

LdashD wrote:& does he know what he is talking about?

I imagine so in general, and i'm sure he's very good at what he does.

It does sound like he's probably got a background in office networking and MS server management however and as someone else who also does (admittedly a long time ago now) I'll be the first to say that the overlap in knowledge between the two segments is pretty minimal.

LdashD wrote:This is my spec:

If someone put that system front of me I'd say great, go make some music.
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Re: Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby Pete Kaine » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:52 pm

mashedmitten wrote:One other thing is the power supply. The one you list doesn't seem to be modular. No big deal in and of itself, but it's made by BeQuiet. After seeing the QC of their cases ( I've got a rivet wracking the HDD bay) I'd be leary of anything from them.

I went with this one, no niggles.

EVGA SuperNOVA 550 G2, 80+ GOLD 550W

Whilst I love the G2 models, certainly a good choice, the Bequiet PSU's are great too.

As far as BeQuiet! go, they design in house and farm out construction for everything as does EVGA as it happens (a lot of firms do).

I don't know who builds the BeQuiet! cases, but the PSU's are FSP who are pretty good at the QC stage and why I'm happy to go with them. The big selling point on the cases is the included fans are great, but then I don't recall about seeing QC issues on the case itself before, so can't comment if you got unlucky with that, or if it's more common.

The EVGA's are Superflower designed and superflower are a superb PSU firm that used to be a bit rare outside of Asia. I spent years trying to import the PSU the G2's are based around, so very happy to see them these days. I just wished they shipped with the BeQuiet! fans in them!
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Re: Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby Scramble » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:30 pm

>I then showed the spec to my, trusted, local PC shop guy, who repairs and builds computers, and he did not rate the Asus Mother Boards or the Corsair DDR4 Vengeance memory, stating that the boards are unreliable, (he has had many back to fix/replace, often before one year has even elapsed) as was the memory.

ASUS motherboards and Corsair memory are both very popular, so it's not surprise if a repair shop guy sees a lot of them coming in for repair. What counts, though, is the failure rate, not the overall number of failures, and a repair shop guy who isn't dealing in large numbers won't know those. Scan, who build a huge amount of all sorts of systems, will.
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Re: Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby Guest271017 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:42 pm

Pete Kaine wrote:As far as BeQuiet! go, they design in house and farm out construction for everything as does EVGA as it happens

Yeah, I'm only going by one experience. Guess it's not quite fair to bin the lot wholesale. Shows how strong first impressions/ experiences are overall. Something like this shouldn't have gotten through QC, you notice it as soon as you take the cover off. I have absolutely no qualms with the case other than that, and it's minor to me, adds character.

Were I to do it all over again, I can't say I'd change anything.

Having done it once and getting the novelty of building a system out of my system, I realize that the markup on a ready built system is a wash when you consider all of factors. You spend hours researching parts, hoping they'll play nice together (no guarantee). You order the parts and may find issues with said, forcing return and further wait time. You assemble said parts, maybe finding real estate issues or other, not to mention any damage during the build is on your dime. If you get through that, now comes tuning the system. The UEFI for the MB alone took me a few days of going through understanding what everything did on a rudimentary level, getting to the point of knowing what I'm doing is going to be a chore. Last, OS and Programs and OS settings.

When you add up all of the time and parts, the minimal markup of someone like Scan is actually a savings, IMHO. You get a tested system, ready to go except your peripherals with a warrantee and support. It's a no-brainer.

I'm not associated in any way with Scan, just to get that out of the way, but I've followed Pete's postings throughout a few forums and from everything I've seen he's beyond reproach. This is the type of person I look to do any business with. He's always forthcoming with detailed information that contains no spin. If he has a different opinion on something, he doesn't go into rant mode, just offers facts and links to back up what he says. He's got to be one of the most even-keeled people I've ever seen on the web. Again, no association, I just like to recognize exemplary behavior when I find it.

I'm a hard person to please when it comes to purchases. I'd have no issue dealing with Scan and would buy any of their systems under different circumstances, moving to the UK would be one. :lol:

Sorry for the long-windedness.
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Re: Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:12 pm

To be honest Pete, if you’re ok with my/your spec I reckon I should be too, he just threw me that is all.

When I say ‘trusted’ I mean he seems like a decent affable sort, I used him once recently to replace a power unit. He reckoned about 50% of ASUS boards are returned faulty, I have had an ASUS MB for 6/7 years, no problem at all. But like you mention, ‘Some kit just doesn’t play nicely together,’ and his experience, as Scramble states, would probably be in the hundreds, not thousands or tens of.

Unless my USB sockets problem (a few years now) was down to the ASUS board, external drives not being recognised, except the ones already hooked up and then they only work in the exact same slot, and only an old ‘pre-problem’ stick is recognised, no new ones are, Weirdsville, cannot clone it either, you told me a while ago, ‘It must be broken then’.

I did think his remark was odd, as that spec seems to be a current budget (ish) ‘industry standard,’ I doubt you could do much better for the money. And it is also possible that he is trying to off-load components that he already has or can source cheaply.

See what you think when I post his spec, I told him I would like to come in at under a grand.

Might order from Scan anyway, it’s just that he is just around the corner, literally, then again, logically, there’s nothing to stop me taking a Scan computer there if or when a problem might arise.


Win 7 is going to cause grief with that spec? I won’t ever be connected to the internet, I just want to get Cubase up and running with all my synth’s, plug’s etc, exactly as it is, otherwise I know some, most, or all of my Cubase arrangements will not load, being fairly prolific this is my only real concern, as I have lots of tracks well on the way to being finished, even from yonks ago. So not in the least bit bothered about incompatibility with newer software, I can more than make do with what I already have, no problem.

Many thanks to all.
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Re: Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby Guest271017 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:33 pm

No real grief with W7, a simple patch sorts it. You won't be on the net anyway.
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Re: Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby Dynamic Mike » Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:03 am

I think with local retailers with a fairly low throughput it's easy to identify a pattern where there isn't one, due to the small sample size. Plus I suppose if you're doing repairs you don't necessarily have a great idea of how many 'non-faulty' units are out there.

Audits in A&E departments a few years ago showed more people were bitten by labradors than any other dog. In reality they're not paricularly dangerous dogs, it's just that (a) there are lots of them & (b) most people can identify them.
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Re: Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby Pete Kaine » Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:23 pm

mashedmitten wrote:He's got to be one of the most even-keeled people I've ever seen on the web.

Given the amount of time i've spend online, and I'm sure we all have our moments... I think that's quite a compliment in itself. Thanks :)


LdashD wrote:Unless my USB sockets problem (a few years now) was down to the ASUS board, external drives not being recognised, except the ones already hooked up and then they only work in the exact same slot, and only an old ‘pre-problem’ stick is recognised, no new ones are, Weirdsville, cannot clone it either, you told me a while ago, ‘It must be broken then’.

We had a few generations of boards before the USB3.0 spec was fully locked down, where the USB ports could be spotty, depending upon what solution they happen to have picked for any given model.

ASMedia was on the Asus boards (Asus own ASmedia), so if for instance you picked up a Gigabyte or MSI it might have had a competing NEC or Renesys solution. Neither solution was better than the other, they all had their share of kit they didn't get along with.

A lot of these issues cleared up when Intel absorbed it into the spec as everyone just validated to Intel after that, leaving the older controllers and drivers to slowly disappear.

Now current boards if they go above the Intel base spec, still have to fit additional controllers to handle extra ports. You can't seem to pickup Intel add in solutions (be those on a card or onboard) so these third party solutions seem to still be lurking around and it's why if one port doesn't play well, others in the system might still be great.

Interesting turn up this year is that ASmedia developed the solution for all of the AMD boards. I'm expecting ASmedia compatability to go up as they become more popular and more firm start to test on them, but the has been a number of firms who posted at the AMD launch that their current USB ranges can be a bit picky on them.

Win 7 is going to cause grief with that spec?

The board doesn't officially support it. Yes, the are update patches to allow you to update windows, but driver support may be lacking in the short term and possibly zero in the long term. Certainly give it a go if you wish, maybe even dual boot for safety, but supporting it on that platform might prove hard for whoever does build it for you.

Dynamic Mike wrote:Audits in A&E departments a few years ago showed more people were bitten by labradors than any other dog. In reality they're not paricularly dangerous dogs, it's just that (a) there are lots of them & (b) most people can identify them.

Absolutely. What's that quote?

"I can prove anything by statistics except the truth"
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Re: Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby Guest » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:20 am

Pete, sorry to be a pain mate, I thought there were two possible major problems for me even if I, ‘Dual boot for safety,’ as you recommend.

Win7’s possible iffy compatibility with the current boards, so I also assume that Win 10 will not respond kindly to Cubase 5 and the older plug-ins/synths/drivers etc maybe?

My system is about 7/8 years old, an i3 and an ASUS P7H55-M, would it be wiser to build a
Win7 from much better components from roughly that period?

My computer is solely my canvas and tool-box for Audio/video if you get my drift.

My only concern is Cubase projects loading exactly/correctly, that’s it, I can spec a more up to date Win10 PC if or when the need arrives.

Point is, my freaking creaking PC is on its last legs, so if need be, whilst it’s still working, I can rid all the Cubase projects of plug-ins then just transfer them to the new build, although not ideal as some are heavily effected/processed and therefore rely on that, but at least I will have the project/arrangement intact, and I can save plug-in settings, hence my reliance on Win7 for a hassle-free quiet life.

Er, Scan must ‘ave loadsa old components, it wants to off-load in a ‘new’ build dunnit?
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Re: Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby Guest271017 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:11 am

C5 won't run well, if at all on W10 due to the change in audio handling introduced in W10. I forget which versions are ported for it. Must be on the SB site somewhere in the KB. If you upgrade to C9, 32 bit plugs won't work not to mention the learning curve you're in for. Wasn't C5 the version you needed a patch to install in 64bit, or was it C4?

I've got an image of a perfect install of W7, up to date, all plugs authorized, etc, so I'll never have to worry about the patch becoming obsolete. I'll have a working setup without further update as long as I have the system.
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Re: Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby Pete Kaine » Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:42 am

LdashD wrote:Win7’s possible iffy compatibility with the current boards, so I also assume that Win 10 will not respond kindly to Cubase 5 and the older plug-ins/synths/drivers etc maybe?

in the OS case it's because W7 went to "extended support" part of it's life cycle at the start of last year. At that point partners are not required to release new drivers by Microsoft.

So given the new hardware all came out after that cut off point, it's in no-ones interest to support it on new hardware, because it they promise working drivers and then it breaks Microsoft will just shrug.

Current drivers may or may not work, after all the changes from W7 - W10 are largely small tweaks and you can normally force them on. The problem is that it might work now, but unless you freeze the machine in a working state (not out of the question....) any given driver or program update might break it completely with no recourse if it does.

In Cubases case... C5 didn't like W7 for me and I've heard reports of it imploding under W10. Possibly not going to pay off for you.

My system is about 7/8 years old, an i3 and an ASUS P7H55-M, would it be wiser to build a
Win7 from much better components from roughly that period?

For a system to run specific older projects? I've heard of plenty of people doing it for various reasons over the years.

Er, Scan must ‘ave loadsa old components, it wants to off-load in a ‘new’ build dunnit?

Surprisingly we don't. We used to bulk sell job lots to clearance specialists in the past, these days we have an Ebay outlet that older hardware ends up on; we try really hard not to hold old stock.

That said, head to Ebay and restrict location to the local area and pickup only. You often find older kit going for peanuts because nobody wishes to make the effort to ship it. I'd be amazed if you couldn't pick up a spec from around that period for absolute peanuts.
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Re: Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby Guest » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:26 pm

Hmmm, Ebay, talk about stating the obvious, but that just didn’t occur to me, so thanks for stating the obvious sir, already had a quick look, pound for pound, I reckon peanuts are more expensive, many thanks for that.

Also gives me the option of having a new build Win10 with the spec I posted here and then transfer stuff gradually or when needed, wicked man, that’s way more than one I owe you mate.

If I’m not sure I’ll post spec here and maybe you/others can advise.

Thanks to all.

Bleedin’ Ebay indeed, I wouldn’t mind but that’s always me first port of call for any music related stuff, OK, I finally admit to not being quite as clever as I thought I was/make out.
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Re: Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby Guest » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:45 am

Hey Pete, many thanks, I took a punt on this set-up from Ebay, £390, good buy?

OS: Windows 7 Pro 64 Bit
CPU: Intel Core i7-3930K 3.2GHz 6 Core
PSU: Gigabyte 570W
Graphics Card: Nvidia Quadro 600
RAM: 32GB Hyper X Kingston 1600MHz
HDD: 750GB Hard Disk Drive
Motherboard: Asus P9X79 LGA2011 Socket
Drive: DVD-RW

Anything I should consider adding, a cooler?
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Re: Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby Pete Kaine » Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:37 am

LdashD wrote:Hey Pete, many thanks, I took a punt on this set-up from Ebay, £390, good buy?

I hadn't realised prices had reached so low, although I guess that model is close to half a decade old now. I'm running the next chip up the range (3960k) from that one still and it does me fine after 5 years.

The interesting point here is that the 3930k pulls the same benchmarks as the 7700K you asked about initially. So with that in mind, I'd say you did alright on this one!

A cooler upgrade is a solid option if the current one is hot and loud, also make sure you check the fans and coolers for dust on receipt, hopefully its been kept clean. It'll be worth removing the current cooler and re-pasting the chip at this point even if you don't upgrade it, as the paste tends to become less effective over the years.

Add an SSD for the OS and run crystal disk over the HDD to check for any damage before commiting data to it. Oh and if you're doing a resoftware anyway, check to see if any BIOS updates offer features you need prior to doing so, might save some hassle down the road.

Lastly the Quadro might be noisy if it has a fan, they tend to be small and high pitched on a lot of them, of course if you're lucky enough to get a passive one, then great.
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Re: Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby Guest » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:24 pm

The guy is selling them refurbished so hopefully they’ve given it a thorough clean and inspection, but I’ll have a good nose around inside.

Thanks for the tips will add SSD and check cooler etc.

What really brought it home was serious audio glitching, no midi on my latest creation, about 30 or so audio tracks & counting, all with a few plug-ins, my i3 just can’t handle it, 20 or so audio tracks seem to be its limit.

Video rendering should be a lot quicker too, still, shouldn’t count me chickens just yet, got a small mountain of software to load.

Many thanks man, indebted to you sir.
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Re: Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby SafeandSound Mastering » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:35 pm

"ASUS P7H55-M"

Just a heads up as I recognized the board number... I thought this board was working nicely on my office PC after installing W10 (64 bit non OEM version) in January this year and the USB mouse and keyboard were not playing ball, intermittent working and then not working a right pain. I emailed ASUS and they replied saying that Motherboard does not officially support W10 and that results may vary. I used the ASUS P7H55-M for about 6 years in a Dino PC off the shelf and it was fine really and yes it slowed and I felt I wanted to go W10 throughout here.

I built a nice upload/download/email/office machine around ASUS B250 Plus with W10 64 bit after this mouse and keyboard issue and it has been faultless since and is on about 7-8 hours a day typically.

I like ASUS motherboards and have used them exclusively for self builds over the years, also the 2-3 custom built machines (audio) from a couple of PC manufacturers have had ASUS boards and have worked very nicely.
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Re: Scanning Scan, Audio/Video Workstation befuddlement.

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:14 pm

Hey Pete, new Pc was running fine ‘til I introduced this somehow,

System error & H80004005 (-2147467259)

After that error message has eventually appeared twice & including it, it takes about 3mins, then it seems to work ok.

Any ideas?

I tried that McAfee rootkitremover you recommended last year and that immediately fixed a problem Trojan virus on the Pc I’m replacing, but seems it’s not a virus this time.

Bloody computers.
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