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W 10, belts & braces

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W 10, belts & braces

Postby ef37a » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:05 am

Just taken delivery of a refurbished Lenovo T430 (i5 3320 2.6G 8G ram 256G SSD) with W10 Pro.

I had quite a job setting it going because..
1) I had already setup (and forgotten!) an Msft account
2) I am a PC numpty.

But the machine will be going to live in France and so I think son would be best advised to clear it and start afresh? With that in mind the vendors have told me to go>" run, type sysprep and set to out of box condition.

So, my basic question is, can I make an image of the hard drive as it is now and store it on a 32G stick for son to take with him in case he cannot get the laptop setup or will "sysprep" put the machine beyond image recovery?

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Re: W 10, belts & braces

Postby Watchmaker » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:36 pm

Umm, I'd do that as a simple copy and not as a back up or image restore because once you reset the C drive it probably won't recognize the backup. Unless it's imperative to keep programs and settings the same as on the machine as it is now, I'd personally do a clean install.

One alternative is to install WIN10 from a USB. Microsoft's own instructions for this can be found here: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_install-insiderplat_pc/how-to-perform-a-clean-install-or-reinstall-of/aef0ae63-2117-41ee-a8ea-4a3181625b08
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Re: W 10, belts & braces

Postby ef37a » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:50 pm

Watchmaker wrote:Umm, I'd do that as a simple copy and not as a back up or image restore because once you reset the C drive it probably won't recognize the backup. Unless it's imperative to keep programs and settings the same as on the machine as it is now, I'd personally do a clean install.

One alternative is to install WIN10 from a USB. Microsoft's own instructions for this can be found here: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_install-insiderplat_pc/how-to-perform-a-clean-install-or-reinstall-of/aef0ae63-2117-41ee-a8ea-4a3181625b08

Hmm? Confused! The vendors tell me "sysprep" etc will restore the machine to the condition in which I received it whereby son will have to go through the setup and registration procedure (but not W10 activation? ). Surely a format and complete re install will take him much longer and he will still have the setup to do afterwards?

I have only put Reaper and Samplitude Silver on it for him to use whilst in UK so if they go, no harm.

I am pretty sure you see that the vendor's trick and subsequent setup will work, I just would like him to have a backup. Err? Wouldn't I have to BUY W10 pro again to put it on a stick?

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Re: W 10, belts & braces

Postby BJG145 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:44 pm

...why do you need to wipe it anyway...? I wouldn't start sysprepping it unless I really had to. Utilities like CCleaner should suffice for most things.
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Re: W 10, belts & braces

Postby ef37a » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:23 pm

BJG145 wrote:...why do you need to wipe it anyway...? I wouldn't start sysprepping it unless I really had to. Utilities like CCleaner should suffice for most things.

Because it is a present for my son and when he takes it back to France I am sure he will be better off to have the machine setup ONLY for his Ms account, password (and IP address? ), mobile number? Better also I think that he learns how to do these things when he is prepared for them and not when/if he HAS to?

I suppose he could just setup a second account but could he be the administrator? I relly don't know much about this stuff but I think that last can be quite important?

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Re: W 10, belts & braces

Postby Pete Kaine » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:46 pm

ef37a wrote:I suppose he could just set up a second account but could he be the administrator?

Yes, you can have as many admin accounts as you want.

If you want to keep the same software/drivers on there (i.e. you know it works for a given task) but you want him to be able to personalize it... you do a factory reseal.

If you want it fresh from the factory and clean from third-party junk... you do a reinstall.
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Re: W 10, belts & braces

Postby Watchmaker » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:36 pm

I got in the habit of wiping PCs ages ago for reasons that are too idiosyncratic to go into really. I have noticed though, that a good clean install saves much trauma in the long run.

And I never, ever listen to vendors (not PC vendors anyway...now interface vendors, I spend way too much time listening to!). I could bore you with detail, suffice to say I was a tech when computers had turbo buttons back in the days of 80286's and then did a stint with motorola. I don't know near as much as many of the good folks here on the forums, but I always start with a clean install. Just me tuppence.
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Re: W 10, belts & braces

Postby ef37a » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:45 am

I am afraid I have little choice Watchmaker BUT to listen to the vendor! If I do anything else and things go Ts U my warranty is shot!

Bit more background: Bought from "Secondlife IT" via Amazon and it was delivered on time and in perfect order. There was a single A4 instruction sheet mainly about activation.

The code was in the battery comp' and I had to scratch off part of the digits. Tells me the product key is "of no commercial value". That prompts my question again. What would I do a fresh OS install with and would that key activate it? Not that I want to do that. The 256G SSD has only some 27G used and so I cannot see there is much to hinder son? He will only be building tracks in Sam ProX3, not scoring Star Wars "nth" . He and his partner might also quite enjoy some of the "crap"!

Thank you all for your input. I think I shall just give him the vendor's "back to receipt" procedure. He can then decide if he want to do that or just let my "bits" RIP and setup as a second administrator.

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Re: W 10, belts & braces

Postby DGL. » Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:53 pm

On windows 10 the licence is linked to the PC itself and so there should never be a problem activating it if reinstalled, although on WIN10 reinstalling is not necessary, just boot the system into the startup options and do a reset, that will delete everything (securely if you so wish) and set it back to factory conditions.
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Re: W 10, belts & braces

Postby ef37a » Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:04 pm

DGL. wrote:On windows 10 the licence is linked to the PC itself and so there should never be a problem activating it if reinstalled, although on WIN10 reinstalling is not necessary, just boot the system into the startup options and do a reset, that will delete everything (securely if you so wish) and set it back to factory conditions.

Err? Right! See, people are giving me new words and I don't know if they all mean the same and what the various procedures do.

Ok, I think what I really need to know is. If son tries the vendors re set system and has a problem, will he be able to go back to the condition I left it in if I make an image and put it on a USB stick? Also, can such an image be run from a stick?

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Re: W 10, belts & braces

Postby job » Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:06 pm

Cloning the drive before sysprep sounds like the start of a bunch of problems to me; it's backwards to what you should do.

What i would do is uninstall all bundled software that isn't necessary for the Lenovo hardware and then just give it to your son, suggesting he create a new admin account and delete the old one. Create a new Microsoft account also and link the computer to that new account, then delink the old one. This way he has everything necessary to be self-sufficient and you have nothing.

This will give him basically a brand new install of Windows to work from, as anything account specific you've done will gone. Anything system wide that you've done will remain however (e.g. Reaper and Samplitude i'd imagine).
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Re: W 10, belts & braces

Postby Watchmaker » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:18 pm

ef37a wrote:
DGL. wrote:On windows 10 the licence is linked to the PC itself and so there should never be a problem activating it if reinstalled, although on WIN10 reinstalling is not necessary, just boot the system into the startup options and do a reset, that will delete everything (securely if you so wish) and set it back to factory conditions.

Err? Right! See, people are giving me new words and I don't know if they all mean the same and what the various procedures do.


Dave.

It gets pretty confusing. MS changed the way they license by hardcoding the license key into the bios, which may -or may not- be problematic, depending on both your philosophy and luck.

I bought a brand new Dell last year and the mother board fried within a week. Rather than refund or exchange the unit, Dell sent some techie to make a house call and he installed a used and rather dirty motherboard for me. I was thrilled to have a used piece of gear at top dollar, I'll tell you. Rest assured Dell will never see another penny out of me!

Anyway, the replacement motherboard had a different license code than the one which was tied to the installed OS on the hard drive and they gave me the magic numbers for the new bios "in case" I had any issue. I haven't thankfully, but I've kept the license card as I'm confident the next unwanted "upgrade" will lock me out of everything.

This is why I now run my studio on Macs and my very expensive, highly intrusive and moderately well performing PC is used solely to annoy good people on my favorite forums. :headbang:
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Re: W 10, belts & braces

Postby ef37a » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:10 am

Well I ain't buying him a mac!

He could leave this bugger on the train. The number of phones we have bought him!!

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Re: W 10, belts & braces

Postby Pete Kaine » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:08 am

BIOS injection is a contract requirement for anyone involved in the MS key partner program (HP/Dell etc,,,) but I wouldn't have expected it to be a requirement for a small refurb firm... one whose name I have to say has to be an unfortunate pick if they want to score well in SEO.

Everything else (standard off the shelf keys) work off a combination of hardware ID's that get's stored serverside when you first activate. Too many of those ID's change, it's time for a phone call to Microsoft.

If it's injected, you can just reinstall and it'll self-activate. Otherwise, as long as you have the key it should be pretty straightforward to re-enter it if none of the hardware changes between reinstalls.

You could use a key reader to make sure what's on there in the registry already matches what's attached to the case before you mess with the OS. "Magic Jelly Bean" or "Belarc Adviser" tend to be the goto I use when I need to do this, both should still work under W10, but I've not needed to do it in quite a while.

If you did want to flatten it and the T&C's say you can't (which frankly is complete B.S) I'd agree back up the initial image somewhere so it can be copied back in a worst case scenario, or just use another drive.
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Re: W 10, belts & braces

Postby ef37a » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:15 am

Thanks Pete. I am going to leave it and let him just setup another account. If he has any bother he can try the vendor's scheme.

I have used Belarc a few times with W7 so I shall see how it goes with Ten.

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