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Silent PC

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Re: Silent PC

Postby Eddy Deegan » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:24 am

Martin Walker wrote:
Eddy Deegan wrote:I'm guessing that the thing is built to use the fans intelligently though I am not aware of the exact details.

Many bands hope to do that with their followers, but it rarely works out that way :beamup:

:clap: :D
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Re: Silent PC

Postby Pete Kaine » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:17 am

Trevor Johnson wrote:Many motherboards, certainly Asus, have fan controller software that lets you use either preset, or your own custom, fan profiles, when powering your case fans from the motherboard headers. This can make a considerable difference to overall noise.

Do it from the BIOS controller, not from the software. Some of the worst DPC I tend to see comes from overly aggressive fan controller software.

Back to the OP post - parts have gotten better over the last decade and seem to be continuing to improve. The performance companies started to focus on noise once the CPU performance increases plateaued for a few years, which helped, although with the current CPU wars we're already seeing these gains being tossed aside.

Just as a comparison the last generation Xeon that the Mac Pros use currently has a 20% lower power draw than the current i9's. Although, it should be noted that the chips used as a comparison (Intel Xeon W-2155 vs Intel i9 9900K) pull the same benchmarks more or less and the i9 is a 1/3rd of the price (£1000 cheaper).

That coupled with streamlined case designs (it gets easier when you build the case from the ground up) gives Apple the advantage out of the gate. There are things you can do on the PC side where fully passive cases are becoming more available through, even some starting to appear for the high-end chipsets. Aside from that, there's always upgrade options to bring down noise levels with the higher end coolers and fan combos, it's just figuring out where you'll get the gains from.
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Re: Silent PC

Postby mozart999uk » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:20 am

Thanks Pete. Interesting stuff :)
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Re: Silent PC

Postby craigtumps » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:22 pm

You can replace the fans on a PC for silent ones. Also fanless power supplies are available. This website is dedicated to selling quiet PCs and components. http://www.quietpc.com

I went the extra step and made my PC water cooled. It still has fans but they run very slowly and silent as its the radiator filled with liquid that does most of the cooling. Even when the computer is working really hard the fans don't spin up. You have to make sure you buy a quiet water pump with this setup though.

you can get insulated cases too that keep the sound in. But I don't think they are worth the expense if you shop for quiet components.
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Re: Silent PC

Postby mozart999uk » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:38 pm

craigtumps wrote:You can replace the fans on a PC for silent ones. Also fanless power supplies are available. This website is dedicated to selling quiet PCs and components. http://www.quietpc.com

I went the extra step and made my PC water cooled. It still has fans but they run very slowly and silent as its the radiator filled with liquid that does most of the cooling. Even when the computer is working really hard the fans don't spin up. You have to make sure you buy a quiet water pump with this setup though.

you can get insulated cases too that keep the sound in. But I don't think they are worth the expense if you shop for quiet components.

Thanks Craig. I stopped using QuietPC after they screwed me over speccing incorrect components for a build I did years ago. Hence why this time I went to Scan / 3XS.

Interested in your water cooling. What rads / fans have you got ?

I wonder if the new macs will use some sort of liquid cooling?

Scan put my whole gubbins in a fractal case. Seems really quiet. Definitely notice a big difference when you open the front door (of my case I mean, not my house)
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Re: Silent PC

Postby craigtumps » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:41 pm

mozart999uk wrote:
Nathan-VST-Plugins wrote:One option would be using a PC liquid cooling system without fans for zero noise, which are quite uncommon, or a more realistic approach, using a set of PC silent fans designed for a low maximum noise generation of few dBAs. :shh:

I thought I read somewhere that for the hotter chips like the i9 (particularly when overclocked) it just isn't possible to cool them effectively using liquid cooling......

Thats wrong, if you are overclocking an i9 you absolutely should use water cooling. The highest overclocks are cooled with water not air cooling.

The problem with air cooling with a heatsink is you reach a point where the heat doesnt conduct quick enough through the metal of the heatsink. So you can put a heatsink the size of a car on the chip but it will still over heat. All the heat just sits at the bottom of the heatsink around the processor. With water it transfers the heat through a very thin metal waterblock and then the heat is transfered to water. The water carries the heat to the radiator where it can dump the heat spread out over the rad. Its similar to how cooling works on a car engine. You take the heat away, then deal with it somewhere else.
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Re: Silent PC

Postby mozart999uk » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:43 pm

craigtumps wrote:
mozart999uk wrote:
Nathan-VST-Plugins wrote:One option would be using a PC liquid cooling system without fans for zero noise, which are quite uncommon, or a more realistic approach, using a set of PC silent fans designed for a low maximum noise generation of few dBAs. :shh:

I thought I read somewhere that for the hotter chips like the i9 (particularly when overclocked) it just isn't possible to cool them effectively using liquid cooling......

Thats wrong, if you are overclocking an i9 you absolutely should use water cooling. The highest overclocks are cooled with water not air cooling.

The problem with air cooling with a heatsink is you reach a point where the heat doesnt conduct quick enough through the metal of the heatsink. So you can put a heatsink the size of a car on the chip but it will still over heat. All the heat just sits at the bottom of the heatsink around the processor. With water it transfers the heat through a very thin metal waterblock and then the heat is transfered to water. The water carries the heat to the radiator where it can dump the heat spread out over the rad. Its similar to how cooling works on a car engine. You take the heat away, then deal with it somewhere else.

That makes a lot of sense to me. I must have read that wrong somewhere.
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Re: Silent PC

Postby craigtumps » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:48 pm

mozart999uk wrote:
craigtumps wrote:You can replace the fans on a PC for silent ones. Also fanless power supplies are available. This website is dedicated to selling quiet PCs and components. http://www.quietpc.com

I went the extra step and made my PC water cooled. It still has fans but they run very slowly and silent as its the radiator filled with liquid that does most of the cooling. Even when the computer is working really hard the fans don't spin up. You have to make sure you buy a quiet water pump with this setup though.

you can get insulated cases too that keep the sound in. But I don't think they are worth the expense if you shop for quiet components.

Thanks Craig. I stopped using QuietPC after they screwed me over speccing incorrect components for a build I did years ago. Hence why this time I went to Scan / 3XS.

Interested in your water cooling. What rads / fans have you got ?

I wonder if the new macs will use some sort of liquid cooling?

Scan put my whole gubbins in a fractal case. Seems really quiet. Definitely notice a big difference when you open the front door (of my case I mean, not my house)

I doubt any big manufacturer like Apple or HP would sell pre made watercooled PCs. The problem is you need to do a certain amount of maintenance. You need to drain the cooling liquid every few years. And if something goes wrong you would have water everywhere. So I think it will only ever be an enthusiast thing.

I built mine a while ago. I have an XSPC radiator and Gentle Typhoon fans. I have an Aquacomputer controller for the fans and pump. You need a decent controller so you can setup custom fan curves, slow the fans right down. I water cool the graphics card too as those are usually the most noisy fans.
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Re: Silent PC

Postby craigtumps » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:51 pm

The latest Mac Pro they made a lot of effort with the cooling to make it quieter. A lot of engineering went in to have that level of graphics cooled in that small case.
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Re: Silent PC

Postby craigtumps » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:04 pm

@mozart999uk Overclockers UK has a good forum for helping out if you wanted to build a water PC. They have some pinned guides and the guys there are helpful.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/forum ... oling.133/

It does work out more expensive though. These days good quality fans and power supplies you can get a pretty silent PC. Just depends if you want to start overclocking.
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Re: Silent PC

Postby Pete Kaine » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:18 am

mozart999uk wrote:
craigtumps wrote:
mozart999uk wrote:
Nathan-VST-Plugins wrote:One option would be using a PC liquid cooling system without fans for zero noise, which are quite uncommon, or a more realistic approach, using a set of PC silent fans designed for a low maximum noise generation of few dBAs. :shh:

I thought I read somewhere that for the hotter chips like the i9 (particularly when overclocked) it just isn't possible to cool them effectively using liquid cooling......

Thats wrong, if you are overclocking an i9 you absolutely should use water cooling. The highest overclocks are cooled with water not air cooling.

The problem with air cooling with a heatsink is you reach a point where the heat doesnt conduct quick enough through the metal of the heatsink. So you can put a heatsink the size of a car on the chip but it will still over heat. All the heat just sits at the bottom of the heatsink around the processor. With water it transfers the heat through a very thin metal waterblock and then the heat is transfered to water. The water carries the heat to the radiator where it can dump the heat spread out over the rad. Its similar to how cooling works on a car engine. You take the heat away, then deal with it somewhere else.

That makes a lot of sense to me. I must have read that wrong somewhere.

I'll explain the thought process behind that as you've probably seen me state it. Agreed, that whilst you'll always get the last few percent on water cooling, there are possibly other issues that people don't always account for.

I'm just going to use the 9900K as the example, but this voltage handling outline applies to all chips at one clock speed or another.

On the 9900K to move from 4.9GHz to 5.0 or 5.1 (chip depending) requires going from 1.2v or less to 1.3v+ in a rather brick wall type fashion.

Having a water block move the heat from the centre of the case to the extremities means that you don't have a fan around the CPU slot, which means you don't have as much air flow around the VRM's. Given that you're going to be slamming them whilst you're overclocking that extra few 100MHz this is a rather handy way of encouraging the board to burn out earlier in its lifecycle.

My other objections are pump noise and the fact that you've got tighter fins on the rads at the edge of the case, which in turn require more CFM from the fans than they would at the centre of the case both of which tend to mean more noise, not less than a couple of well-chosen and managed fans.

I'm fully behind the ability to eak out the last few MHz if you have the urge too, but a lot of people underestimate proper cooling around the internal components outside of just trying to supercool the chip itself.

We tend to water cool all of our rendering boxes as hitting 5.1/5.2GHz with stack of Titan cards is what those things are all about and we add more cooling to ensure airflow for those VRM's to allow for it to be stable long term... it's a lot of fans through. Alternatively, I can hit an all core 4.9GHz on air with a couple of fans and airflow directly over the VRM's with the lower voltages and I value that trade off long term.
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