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Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

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Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:38 pm
by Watchmaker
Mike Stranks wrote:Us techy-types can forget that our level of understanding of computers is not shared by the vast majority of Microsoft's customers. I can appreciate the company's dilemma... do they incorporate more 'hand-holding', 'keep the show on the road' facilities or just let the uninformed user make the system more and more inefficient?

Aye, the question "Am I my brother's keeper?" still haunts us. To me a computer is a machine that I buy, configure to my needs and expect to remain as I set it. How would you feel about a techie from Neve changing your perfect tone because they were convinced you were driving the gain structure incorrectly. Should chain saw manufacturers come and sharpen your blades to ensure device efficiency?

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:46 pm
by Hugh Robjohns
Fair points...

And I'm loving your signature... may have to borrow that! :lol:

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:57 pm
by blinddrew
The more you try and make something idiot-proof, the more idiots will use it... ;)

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:21 pm
by The Elf
Mike Stranks wrote:I guess there must be different views of the 'Downloads' area. I've never regarded it as anything more than transitory...
Me too. I can sympathise with folks losing data, but if you're not backing up...

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:33 pm
by Hugh Robjohns
Yes, definitely that... but also actually paying attention to the displayed messages during updates. We all get blaze about it when we're doing so many apparently similar updates all the time, but it goes to show that we really should try and pay proper attention because sometimes there are mission-critical differences!

H

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:20 pm
by The Elf
Hugh Robjohns wrote:Yes, definitely that... but also actually paying attention to the displayed messages during updates.
I didn't feel cruel enough to mention that! :lol:

One of the conversations I fear most...

"Why did you just click 'Yes'?"
"I always click 'Yes' there"
"Did you read what it was asking?"
"The last bloke just told me to always click 'Yes' there"

Increasingly frequently I also see people hitting the red 'X' to close a dialogue box, instead of answering the question it was asking - and I've witnessed the horrors that can cause too.

It can be so easy to falling into the trap of thinking that we are seeing a familiar pattern and assuming it will play out the same. You've gotta read those words! :angel:

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:00 pm
by Martin Walker
The Elf wrote:It can be so easy to falling into the trap of thinking that we are seeing a familiar pattern and assuming it will play out the same. You've gotta read those words! :angel:

Sadly not everyone manages to get their words right - I stumbled across a FB post the other day from a proud mother who informed everyone that her "baby had just started going to kidney garden" :headbang:


Martin

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:05 pm
by Wonks
So obviously not there lung at all, but must have been very spleen she went.

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:30 pm
by wireman
Mike Stranks wrote:A couple of comments:

I guess there must be different views of the 'Downloads' area. I've never regarded it as anything more than transitory and, in my earlier ignorance, assumed it was likely to be purged when OS updates came along. It's still a bummer though for those who've been accustomed to treating it as a repository to lose it.

I have never used it (except by mistake when I didn't notice the default in a save box), as you say different people have different ideas on what these are for.

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:09 pm
by Mike Stranks
Martin Walker wrote:
The Elf wrote:It can be so easy to falling into the trap of thinking that we are seeing a familiar pattern and assuming it will play out the same. You've gotta read those words! :angel:

Sadly not everyone manages to get their words right - I stumbled across a FB post the other day from a proud mother who informed everyone that her "baby had just started going to kidney garden" :headbang:


Martin

:lol: There was a story on BBC 'Points West' News many years ago that had everyone in my then office rolling in the aisles... The residents of a large council estate in Bristol were up in arms about proposed changes to parking regs. BBC sent a crew (it was a crew in those days) and local worthies came out and did their irate stuff for the camera. "It's disgusting"; said one. "Everyone round 'ere knows it's always chocolate block on these roads. Them council types should come down 'ere and see it for therselves..." :roll:

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:03 pm
by OneWorld
blinddrew wrote:The more you try and make something idiot-proof, the more idiots will use it... ;)

Yep, that's what you get when you get idiots designing things, but as they say, takes one to know one! :-)

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:18 pm
by OneWorld
Mike Stranks wrote:
Martin Walker wrote:
The Elf wrote:It can be so easy to falling into the trap of thinking that we are seeing a familiar pattern and assuming it will play out the same. You've gotta read those words! :angel:

Sadly not everyone manages to get their words right - I stumbled across a FB post the other day from a proud mother who informed everyone that her "baby had just started going to kidney garden" :headbang:


Martin

:lol: There was a story on BBC 'Points West' News many years ago that had everyone in my then office rolling in the aisles... The residents of a large council estate in Bristol were up in arms about proposed changes to parking regs. BBC sent a crew (it was a crew in those days) and local worthies came out and did their irate stuff for the camera. "It's disgusting"; said one. "Everyone round 'ere knows it's always chocolate block on these roads. Them council types should come down 'ere and see it for therselves..." :roll:

Brill :-)

I was in Shanghai for a month recently and used to visit The Peoples' Number One Food Emporium where you could get excellent cheap and cheerful workaday meals. Anyway I noticed some people were getting takeaways, and thought to myself, hmmmm, I'd quite like some spare ribs to take back to the hotel for supper, so using my infant level Mandarin and my dubious miming skills I tried to relate to Waitress Number 9, who seemed to be assigned to me each day I went there, that I would like some spare ribs to take out, spreading my fingers across my rib cage to signify ribs? then motioning animatedly towards the door, she, and the kitchen staff looked bemused and fell about laughing.

The following day I went to Number One Peoples Food Emporium with my Chinese friend, a Shanghaiese person and I asked her to ask Waitress Number 9 what was so funny yesterday and she said my attempts to order the spare ribs to take out were understood as "Please give me your ribs to throw out the door"

By the way, I can highly recommend Peoples' Number One Food Emporium - a good tasty healthy meal for £3.00 - cheaper than a big mac and twice as wholesome, and Waitress Number 9 apart from being helpful and utterly charming seems to spend most her time laughing like a drain.

Now how did I get here from Win10 and its exasperating foibles.

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:11 am
by hexaet
I recommend this handy freeware update blocker:

https://www.sordum.org/9470/windows-upd ... cker-v1-1/

it's especially handy with the major Win 10 updates

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:29 am
by ef37a
hexaet wrote:I recommend this handy freeware update blocker:

https://www.sordum.org/9470/windows-upd ... cker-v1-1/

it's especially handy with the major Win 10 updates

If that is kosher I LOVE the fact that someone is working to beat Microsoft's attempts at World Domination!

Dave.

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:14 pm
by wireman
Lack of control over updates is the main reason I'm still on Windows 7.
This tool just seems to be making sure that disabling the service is permanent, but you can't do that forever because some updates need it enabled.

I have not looked into this for quite some time but there might now be enough control in the Windows Update local computer policy to at least delay updates. For business and education versions of windows these policies can be set globally.

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:43 pm
by ef37a
wireman wrote:Lack of control over updates is the main reason I'm still on Windows 7.
This tool just seems to be making sure that disabling the service is permanent, but you can't do that forever because some updates need it enabled.

I have not looked into this for quite some time but there might now be enough control in the Windows Update local computer policy to at least delay updates. For business and education versions of windows these policies can be set globally.

But, if you just had to have a W10 computer for DAW purposes I assume that app would be handy because you could go online to get hardware updates but not have Ms crash in and update your setup? Yes, you are going to miss security updates but if you intend to keep the machine off line all the rest of the time no harm?

I think I shall keep this laptop on W7 and disable internet then buy a cheap W10 laptop for "office" duty. I don't really need this old i3 HP for music work but it has Samplitudes of various marks on it including the Pro X 3 suite plus Reaper (paid for) and AA1.5 and I do not want W10 playing silly buggers with any of that.

(AA 1.5 probably won't work on 10 anyway, it is a bit flakey on seven!

Dave.

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:01 pm
by OneWorld
Mike Stranks wrote:A couple of comments:

I guess there must be different views of the 'Downloads' area. I've never regarded it as anything more than transitory and, in my earlier ignorance, assumed it was likely to be purged when OS updates came along. It's still a bummer though for those who've been accustomed to treating it as a repository to lose it.

I've currently in the throes of 'rescuing' a laptop owned by a neighbour. Clever chap in his late '60s who had high-powered corporate compliance roles in his pre-retirement career. The laptop as received was a total mess. Us techy-types can forget that our level of understanding of computers is not shared by the vast majority of Microsoft's customers. I can appreciate the company's dilemma... do they incorporate more 'hand-holding', 'keep the show on the road' facilities or just let the uninformed user make the system more and more inefficient? I was given a 'broken' laptop. What I received was a laptop that had been given no infrastructure TLC and where files and folders had, in ignorance, been placed at random. The laptop is now well on it's way to fully-functioning normality...

I don;t think it needs that much handholding, in any OS I would have thought interfering with anything the user has downloaded is verboten, because they are user created files, in a sense.

For example. I am currently trying to get a refund from a supplier where I sent the item back and the transport is PayPal. Now, it's like pulling teeth trying to get my money back, a situation made more exasperating by the faffing about going through the various procedures all done online and involve filling in online forms, downloading whatever other docs. These docs go into the Downloads folder.

Now I didn't/don't want to create a new folder to store all the communications between myself and the seller/PayPal because of course I did not anticipate the labyrinthine path to trying to get my refund, made more difficult by having to go to ParcelForce to print off an autogenerated label which yes goes into my Downloads folder and then vanishes from the web page where the link to the label appears. Now Paypal wants proof that I paid for and downloaded the said label, but when my Downloads was expunged, of course the label went with it.

Luckily I had made a drive image and got the label back. Of course had I known getting my refund would be akin to uncovering the holy grail I would have created a case folder, but in the past I have downloaded a label, printed the label and sent the item off for return - job done, I then delete the files from Downloads.

I have tried to replicate the circumstances whereby the Downloads folder, so I rolled back to my pre-update image and went through the update process again - I had downloaded the Windows Insider Preview, and it seems that is more vicious when it comes to post-install tidying up. At least now I know why. And there is reference to this on the internet, but easy to be wise after the fact ;-)

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:31 pm
by James Perrett
OneWorld wrote:I had downloaded the Windows Insider Preview,

That's what virtual machines are for - I'd never install an Insider Preview on a machine that I was using for normal work.

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:00 pm
by Richard Graham
Poor interaction design. Unexpectedly putting an option for deleting user files into an update process is inviting the user to make a potentially disastrous error. Users shouldn't need to be watching out in case updates do anything other than update their computer. Just my 2p.

Re: Beware of latest WIN10 update!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:33 pm
by Nathan-VST-Plugins
Even retired Bill Gates would agree with us on that, this case sounds like a very amateurish design decision, or even worse, an error. :protest: