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Help - Can I install two different interfaces without getting driver conflict?

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Re: Help - Can I install two different interfaces without getting driver conflict?

Postby The Elf » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:45 am

ef37a wrote:
Wonks wrote:But being able to use just one ASIO driver at a time is MS, surely? Maybe they need to come together. Right now. Over me.

I find it quite amazing that two of this forum's finest are confused about this?
I don't believe I'm confused! Steinberg wrote ASIO. Maybe the best end-user solution would have been if MS had adopted ASIO way back, rather than coming up with their own half-baked solutions - I'm looking at you, WASAPI...

I've been moved to raise this on the Steinberg forums. This one device limit has been set in stone for so long that I think we don't even question it any more.
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Re: Help - Can I install two different interfaces without getting driver conflict?

Postby wireman » Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:31 pm

I have used multiple audio interfaces as well (Windows XP to 7), PCI, Firewire and USB without conflicts.

Now if I could only choose which one to use from Firefox that would be nice...
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Re: Help - Can I install two different interfaces without getting driver conflict?

Postby ef37a » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:27 pm

The Elf wrote:
ef37a wrote:
Wonks wrote:But being able to use just one ASIO driver at a time is MS, surely? Maybe they need to come together. Right now. Over me.

I find it quite amazing that two of this forum's finest are confused about this?
I don't believe I'm confused! Steinberg wrote ASIO. Maybe the best end-user solution would have been if MS had adopted ASIO way back, rather than coming up with their own half-baked solutions - I'm looking at you, WASAPI...

I've been moved to raise this on the Steinberg forums. This one device limit has been set in stone for so long that I think we don't even question it any more.

Oh! Sorry Elf, I just came away with that erroneous perception.

Ok, Steinberg? Get your act together!

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Re: Help - Can I install two different interfaces without getting driver conflict?

Postby James Perrett » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:40 pm

The Elf wrote:I've been moved to raise this on the Steinberg forums. This one device limit has been set in stone for so long that I think we don't even question it any more.

Those who require high channel counts will probably go for an audio interface manufacturer who allow you to use multiple physical interfaces with a single driver - RME being an obvious example.
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Re: Help - Can I install two different interfaces without getting driver conflict?

Postby The Elf » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:41 pm

James Perrett wrote:
The Elf wrote:I've been moved to raise this on the Steinberg forums. This one device limit has been set in stone for so long that I think we don't even question it any more.
Those who require high channel counts will probably go for an audio interface manufacturer who allow you to use multiple physical interfaces with a single driver - RME being an obvious example.
True enough. But does it need to be this way? Compare with MacOS.
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Re: Help - Can I install two different interfaces without getting driver conflict?

Postby Ramirez » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:18 pm

James Perrett wrote:Those who require high channel counts will probably go for an audio interface manufacturer who allow you to use multiple physical interfaces with a single driver - RME being an obvious example.

Wait, what? How do you do this?

I use a MADIFace Pro, Babyface Pro and an 802. The MADIFace has a different driver, but the Babyface and 802 share the same one. Are you saying I could aggregate their I/O? I know TotalMix recognises each device and their settings separately, and I can switch between them, but can it also then be setup as one larger TotalMix session?

I shall investigate tomorrow!
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Re: Help - Can I install two different interfaces without getting driver conflict?

Postby The Elf » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:31 pm

I'm aware you could use two Fireface 800s, but I never had the opportunity to try it. See what options RME's driver and TotalMix give you.

My MADIFace is designated 'MADIFace XT (1)', so that suggests it's possible. But maybe you have to have identical hardware, not just RME models?
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Re: Help - Can I install two different interfaces without getting driver conflict?

Postby Wonks » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:35 pm

It's that common driver that lets you do it. So the moment you need two different drivers, you're sunk. One driver that can talk to different hardware units at the same time and you're fine.
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Re: Help - Can I install two different interfaces without getting driver conflict?

Postby James Perrett » Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:02 pm

Ramirez wrote:
James Perrett wrote:Those who require high channel counts will probably go for an audio interface manufacturer who allow you to use multiple physical interfaces with a single driver - RME being an obvious example.

Wait, what? How do you do this?


I would have to say that I don't have the gear to check it out but I've seen it mentioned as a feature - mainly in the context of using multiple interfaces of the same type together.

The instructions for my Focusrite Saffire interface also suggest that multiple units can be daisy chained and used simultaneously too.
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Re: Help - Can I install two different interfaces without getting driver conflict?

Postby Ramirez » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:34 pm

Hmm.

It looked promising at first - I connected the Babyface Pro and the Fireface 802 to the same PC. They each had a separate TotalMix window, so I don't think it's possible to combine them there.

However, in Reaper's settings, the Babyface's I/O appeared available in the list after all the 802 I/O. When I tried to make them available, however, Reaper didn't seem able to lock on to the driver/interface, and thus nothing could be done.

ProTools didn't even want to start with both interfaces connected.
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Re: Help - Can I install two different interfaces without getting driver conflict?

Postby ef37a » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:44 pm

Ramirez wrote:Hmm.

It looked promising at first - I connected the Babyface Pro and the Fireface 802 to the same PC. They each had a separate TotalMix window, so I don't think it's possible to combine them there.

However, in Reaper's settings, the Babyface's I/O appeared available in the list after all the 802 I/O. When I tried to make them available, however, Reaper didn't seem able to lock on to the driver/interface, and thus nothing could be done.

ProTools didn't even want to start with both interfaces connected.

Just a couple of thoughts from an old valve amp tech?

Try Samplitude? Pro X4 can be dlld and used free for a month.
Also, if you are just tracking a zillion tracks, do you need very low latency? In other words, don't use ASIO?

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Re: Help - Can I install two different interfaces without getting driver conflict?

Postby MOF » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:59 pm

Am I being too sensitive, undoubtedly, but as I pride myself on being well read and I believe in possession of at least a modicum of eloquence then i do find myself a little hurt by the implication I am inherently stupid.
Just gently ribbing you, mate! I make more mistakes in a single post than anyone here - I just go back and clean them up several times before anyone notices!

I know, I was only having fun in my reply which was actually aimed at the person who picked out my typo, not you :)

It's all good with me.

I wasn’t having a go but thought I’d just point it out, I see it regularly, the other word that I more usually hear than see written is ‘tenant’ when it should be ‘tenet’.
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Re: Help - Can I install two different interfaces without getting driver conflict?

Postby Ramirez » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:04 pm

ef37a wrote:
Ramirez wrote:Hmm.

It looked promising at first - I connected the Babyface Pro and the Fireface 802 to the same PC. They each had a separate TotalMix window, so I don't think it's possible to combine them there.

However, in Reaper's settings, the Babyface's I/O appeared available in the list after all the 802 I/O. When I tried to make them available, however, Reaper didn't seem able to lock on to the driver/interface, and thus nothing could be done.

ProTools didn't even want to start with both interfaces connected.

Just a couple of thoughts from an old valve amp tech?

Try Samplitude? Pro X4 can be dlld and used free for a month.
Also, if you are just tracking a zillion tracks, do you need very low latency? In other words, don't use ASIO?

Dave.

Thanks Dave

To be honest with you, I was only interested in seeing if it worked. I have absoutely zero need for it really - the already 802 has 30 ins and out, and the main studio down the hall has 48 I/O over MADI!
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Re: Help - Can I install two different interfaces without getting driver conflict?

Postby CS70 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:58 pm

The Elf wrote:I've been moved to raise this on the Steinberg forums. This one device limit has been set in stone for so long that I think we don't even question it any more.

It's not like it's set in stone. It's just a different concept.

It'd be perfectly possible to take make an ASIO driver that takes data from two sources - including two others ASIO drivers... that's what "aggregation" does in the mac world, I gather.

The issue is latency. An ASIO buffer (and the same is for mac with another name) is simply a memory area which is filled by the interface and read from the DAW for recording or vice versa for playback.

With two buffers, at any given time they will present a specific sequence of samples to record or playback. How you do combine then?

You have to mix them.

There's two drawbacks to this: one, mixing takes time: you've gotta take the first sample stream and the second and calculate the sum and then copy the result to a third buffer. The result is latency.

Then, there's a few ways to actually mix the samples in terms of calculations and assumptions. It's rare that two interface will be time synchronized, so you have no time reference to say that two samples in the same relative position in the two buffers actually were sampled at the same time. You can do it in a few ways and the result will be sonically different. The result is errors.

Sometimes all that is irrelevant. Sometimes it isn't. But ASIO is meant to be a cable - not a mixer. It keeps complexity (and latency) down, and predictability high. Windows introduced the mixer exactly to solve some of these issues. But it slows down things. It's my understanding that aggregated devices are great for playback (and I suspect that devices can share a timing bus on mac) but for recording you incur latency - there's no other way to do it.

If you wrote a multi-buffer ASIO you end up pretty much replicating what the Windows mixer does, and you'd still need clocking across the two or three interfaces, so you can just as well use that. Much easier and cheaper to have a single multichannel interface.
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Re: Help - Can I install two different interfaces without getting driver conflict?

Postby The Elf » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:08 pm

You're telling me why it's difficult. I accept that, It doesn't stop me wanting it done! :lol:

I suppose the likes of Dante, or it's spin-offs, may well make this irrelevant.
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Re: Help - Can I install two different interfaces without getting driver conflict?

Postby CS70 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:29 pm

Haha not difficult, just different.

I suppose it might be worth to getter better sample rates and word length than the windows mixer.

At 16/4.1 you already have the facility in Windows.

And it can’t be done properly without common clocking (neither pc or Mac)
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Re: Help - Can I install two different interfaces without getting driver conflict?

Postby The Elf » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:16 pm

Appreciate the thoughts. Yep, I think that networked audio will ultimately overtake all of this - I've dipped my toe in and the water is lovely. The prices are sky high at the moment - as they drop adding another interface to a network will be trivial.
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Re: Help - Can I install two different interfaces without getting driver conflict?

Postby CS70 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:18 pm

Indeed - the key is the shared timing clock which makes the exercise worthwhile.
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