You are here

Komplete 6 unit USB socket dead - How to replace

For anything relating to music-making on Windows computers, with lots of FAQs. Moderated by Martin Walker.

Re: Komplete 6 unit USB socket dead - How to replace

Postby Marbury » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:59 am

And couldn't the circuits in the board also melt ?
Marbury
Frequent Poster
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Cheshire, UK
 

Re: Komplete 6 unit USB socket dead - How to replace

Postby ef37a » Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:12 am

Marbury wrote:And couldn't the circuits in the board also melt ?

If you mean the Copper tracks no. Copper does not melt until you reach over 1000C.

There seems to be some confusion between 'heat' and 'temperature' WRT to melting?

You can put an Aluminium* pan on the biggest, industrial gas stove and even empty it will just get B hot and maybe the handle will melt or burn but domestic gas (pure at Board pressure) cannot get to Al2 fusion point. But! A tiny torch producing a needle flame at 1100C will punch a hole through the pan. Again but, fill the pan with water and spuds and the torch will never get you any mash!

*Got an American spell checker on the Lenovo, must look into that...

Dave.
ef37a
Jedi Poster
Posts: 11498
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 12:00 am
Location: northampton uk

Re: Komplete 6 unit USB socket dead - How to replace

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:41 am

As Dave says, you won't melt the copper tracks themselves. But Inexpert application of the soldering iron dumping excessive heat into solder joint could potentially destroy the glue that holds the copper tracks onto the fibreglass board material, so the tracks start to lift off the board. That can quickly become a game-over situation! You could potentially also damage other nearby components with excessive heat, particularly any active components or electrolytic capacitors.

It is for all these reasons, that we've been recommending destroying the USB socket so you are left only with the connecting/securing pins left in the circuit board. That way the metalwork in the USB socket itself won't be able to carry any applied heat away, and you won need to heat all six pins simultaneously... You'll just need to heat and extract each pin individually....

But we are just ping round in circles here, so my final contribution is to repeat the comment I think Folderol ma earlier, which is that the soldering iron tip needs to be held in contact with both the component pin or leg, and the circuit board pad simultaneously. Poor physical contact results in poor heat transfer. So you normally bring the tip in from the side so that it rests on the pad and presses against the side of the pin. The solder then melts within a couple of seconds and you remove it with a solder-sucker or clean wick. With most of the solder removed you can then appy the soldering iron again in the same way to melt any remaining solder and simultaneously remove the component or pin using tweezers or needle-nose pliers from the other side of the board.
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 27027
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: Komplete 6 unit USB socket dead - How to replace

Postby Marbury » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:04 pm

Ok, almost there as started cutting and the back end slid out, pins and all so just the shell left. Interesting the 4 pins in the usb had completely gone as they came out when I melted the solder the other day. Obviously they are not of quality to have perished so easily.


Image
Marbury
Frequent Poster
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Cheshire, UK
 

Re: Komplete 6 unit USB socket dead - How to replace

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:21 pm

They haven't 'perished' -- I can still see them on the body. They are just bent...

So, all you need to do now is cut through the outer frame, removing as much of the metal as you sensibly can, so you can remove the two halves independently by melting the solder around each half's securing tag.
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 27027
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: Komplete 6 unit USB socket dead - How to replace

Postby Folderol » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:57 pm

Probably what happened was the frame wasn't holding the body firmly, so the pins were being stressed every time a connected lead moved. Being so small and a (comparatively) brittle material they fractured due to metal fatigue.

Definitely a promising development.
User avatar
Folderol
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10553
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:00 am
Location: The Mudway Towns, UK
Yes. I am that Linux nut.
Onwards and... err... sideways!

Re: Komplete 6 unit USB socket dead - How to replace

Postby Marbury » Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:57 pm

Well its a basket to get off. I can't shift the remaining bits with the iron, wick or suction. Its impossible to get this stuff off and the board is already looking a pigs ear. Also, some bits of the copper rings around the holes have come off so copper does melt.

It will be a miracle if this works if I manage to get the new one fitted.

Image

Image
Marbury
Frequent Poster
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Cheshire, UK
 

Re: Komplete 6 unit USB socket dead - How to replace

Postby Folderol » Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:14 pm

OK. The problem you're having is caused by the fact that both sides of the board are ground planes and are sucking heat away pretty fast. Also, I think they may have twisted the lugs when they fitted the socket to hold it in place.

So, now keep bending those two remaining pieces backwards and forwards until they snap off at the board.

Then with the board securely held, apply heat and a little solder to each hole that side of the board with iron pretty much flat on it, and really hot - have a wooden cocktail stick to hand and once the solder has flowed, quickly poke it in the hole. It may take several attempts.

Once done, you should be able to do a final cleanup of all holes with solder wick or sucker.
User avatar
Folderol
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10553
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:00 am
Location: The Mudway Towns, UK
Yes. I am that Linux nut.
Onwards and... err... sideways!

Re: Komplete 6 unit USB socket dead - How to replace

Postby Marbury » Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:36 pm

Even the iron at hottest it doesn't really melt the solder but the soddin base plates are breaking away though. This is a nightmare, so near and yet so far.
Marbury
Frequent Poster
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Cheshire, UK
 

Re: Komplete 6 unit USB socket dead - How to replace

Postby ef37a » Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:45 pm

If a pad has come off it is not because is has melted it is because it has broken. Your WERE warned that PCB tracks are fragile and can lift and break. This is nothing to do with the quality of the PCB, the socket or the product in general. That board looks like almost any other that I have met in the last 20 years and much the same stamp as those we see in vastly more costly gear in SOS WHEN we get a gutshot of decent resolution!

My offer was a genuine one, if you want to take advantage PM me and I will give you an address.

Dave.
ef37a
Jedi Poster
Posts: 11498
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 12:00 am
Location: northampton uk

Re: Komplete 6 unit USB socket dead - How to replace

Postby Marbury » Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:51 pm

Thanks but it looks unlikely that it will be mendable if the tracks (circles) have broken around the holes. The iron will just not heat the solder, even at 400 degrees. When I apply new solder to get a key it just rolls into a ball on top of the board doing nothing useful.
Marbury
Frequent Poster
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Cheshire, UK
 

Re: Komplete 6 unit USB socket dead - How to replace

Postby Kwackman » Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:00 pm

I don't want to add any more stress or anxiety, but IMHO you should take Dave up on his kind offer. If anyone can redeem that board at this point, someone with his experience/tools is the best chance. You've nothing to lose.
User avatar
Kwackman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1731
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Belfast
Cubase, guitars.

Re: Komplete 6 unit USB socket dead - How to replace

Postby Marbury » Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:09 pm

I might have to concede at this point but only if you think you can save this ?


Image
Marbury
Frequent Poster
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Cheshire, UK
 

Re: Komplete 6 unit USB socket dead - How to replace

Postby Folderol » Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:26 pm

That is definitely recoverable with care.
Something that has just occurred to me exactly what type of solder have you been using. Although unusual, some have the wrong type of flux for this sort of work, and some even have no flux at all.
User avatar
Folderol
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10553
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:00 am
Location: The Mudway Towns, UK
Yes. I am that Linux nut.
Onwards and... err... sideways!

Re: Komplete 6 unit USB socket dead - How to replace

Postby Marbury » Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:46 pm

ef37a wrote:If a pad has come off it is not because is has melted it is because it has broken. Your WERE warned that PCB tracks are fragile and can lift and break. This is nothing to do with the quality of the PCB, the socket or the product in general. That board looks like almost any other that I have met in the last 20 years and much the same stamp as those we see in vastly more costly gear in SOS WHEN we get a gutshot of decent resolution!

My offer was a genuine one, if you want to take advantage PM me and I will give you an address.

Dave.

I have sent you a pm
Marbury
Frequent Poster
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Cheshire, UK
 

PreviousNext