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Check your drives!

For anything relating to music-making on Windows computers, with lots of FAQs. Moderated by Martin Walker.

Re: Check your drives!

Postby Eddy Deegan » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:11 pm

ef37a wrote:I could not give a monkey's chuff for the customer complaints to Microsoft!

Hey Dave, in this case it's not something Microsoft can reasonably help with. Essentially, you're saying that you want to get a message when the drive is formatted that warns you that the format will be unsuitable for a future task involving imaging it in a particular way.

The problem is that there is no error as far as the OS is concerned. It was asked to format a drive to a particular format, so it formatted it. If something went wrong during that format process then sure, you would expect (and would get) an error to reflect that even if it was one of those obscure ones, which I agree are frustrating and not very helpful to end users sometimes.

As the incompatibility between formats happens when you try and do the imaging later, that's when you get the message in question.

There are a gazillion things that you might do using disk formats and it would be impractical to try and predict all the situations where one format might not be suitable for a particular task so in this case I'm afraid I think Microsoft got it right.

You'd almost certainly have the same issue on any other operating system - they generally don't predict problems you might have with future use of a format because there are so many potential things you could do with it.

No company of any size could reasonably support the calls that would come in if they tried to do those predictions and only an unscrupulous 3rd party company would offer to support it.

The 'friendliest' solution would have been if there was some kind of offer to automatically convert between formats when you tried to do the image but this would have to be implemented by the company who wrote the imaging software and is far from simple (to the point where in some cases it could be borderline impossible depending on the formats involved).

It's much safer to require the right format for the task in the first place because if a format conversion was done and something went wrong in that process you could potentially lose a lot of data and that's a risk I doubt anyone who doesn't specialise in that kind of thing would want to take (and quite reasonably - I know I wouldn't want to!)

Glad you got the problem sorted out in the end :thumbup:
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Re: Check your drives!

Postby n o i s e f l e ur » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:27 pm

Agharta wrote:You might want to turn down the level on your Hyperbole generator as it appears to be in the red. :crazy:
It would need to be worded in a way that is user friendly and simple and if done properly it would be helpful and not confusing. If anything it could reduce support calls.
The majority of end users don’t format a drive either or know that much about it so no harm in holding their hands a bit.
At the very least it would make people aware of the differences which I can’t see as a bad thing.



Did you miss the quotation marks around the hyperbole to denote it was intended to represent an archetypal, non computer-savvy person - and not my own personal reaction or attitude? It's a fairly standard rhetorical device, and one I'll continue to deploy - but thanks everso for the lit-crit. :)

That's quite an interesting challenge actually, care to have a go at writing this info-popup in such a way as to be genuinely useful to the majority of end-users yourself?

You both seem insistent it's not a big deal to craft this sort of UX so I'm curious as to how you'd approach the problem.

I'm happy to Red Team it for you. Though I see you've already got a head start on that yourself?

Agharta wrote:
What would have helped us both is if Windows had given us a notification the first time we manually copied data to the drive about the file system and the implications. That would have been picked up by me immediately assuming I hadn’t dismissed the message out of hand. That might have happened as I have such a low regard for Microsoft and Windows these days.


I am shocked, SHOCKED I TELL YOU!!! :D


Eddy Deegan wrote:
Logic, and consideration for the bigger picture.

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Re: Check your drives!

Postby ef37a » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:53 pm

Hey Eddy!
WTGR 'I' did not bring up the matter of grid locking anyone's support system. Microsoft's or whomever.
I was educated in electronics before computers really existed outside of IBM and governments. I saw of course the rise of the Spectrum and the BBC Computer and people often brought them into the workshop but when asked "what do you DO on it?" they were hard pressed for a reply. I recall it was Feb 2005 when my good lady brought me in a copy of Sound on Sound whilst I was in hospital following a HA. "All bloody computers" I said to myself but kept reading and learning but twas hard.

I can now do pretty much what I need to with the &^%$^ things but they never stop being 'king infuriating!

No idea what 'The Flower' is on about now.

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Re: Check your drives!

Postby Eddy Deegan » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:09 pm

ef37a wrote:I was educated in electronics before computers really existed outside of IBM and governments.

Ha, yes, I'm the other way around. I was educated in computers and have worked with them for decades but when it comes to electronics I'm an utter numpty.

ef37a wrote:I can now do pretty much what I need to with the &^%$^ things but they never stop being 'king infuriating!

They can be, I know. It happens to all of us from time to time. Some of the things I've shouted at printers are, well, unprintable :lol:

Deep breaths and counting to 10 sometimes helps.

To all as a general suggestion, please remember that the written word can come across in ways it wasn't intended to, that we're all different people from different backgrounds, we're all friends with shared interests underneath and we're all trying to help when it comes down to it.

Whereas there are things in life worth getting stressed about, or falling out over, nothing in this thread is remotely near that category!
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Re: Check your drives!

Postby Eddy Deegan » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:50 am

Eddy Deegan wrote:
ef37a wrote:I was educated in electronics before computers really existed outside of IBM and governments.

Ha, yes, I'm the other way around. I was educated in computers and have worked with them for decades but when it comes to electronics I'm an utter numpty.

Oh, Dave, re-reading this I see I my meaning could be misconstrued. I was not inferring you are an utter numpty at computers at all, merely that i am with electronics and that with experience comes enhanced trouble-solving abilities.

I've seen no end of posts you've made about matters electronic where I would have been at a total loss and you have gotten further with computers than I have with circuits.

No offence intended of course, merely a clumsily written phrase. A good example of the perils of the written word!
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Re: Check your drives!

Postby ef37a » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:55 am

Eddy Deegan wrote:
Eddy Deegan wrote:
ef37a wrote:I was educated in electronics before computers really existed outside of IBM and governments.

Ha, yes, I'm the other way around. I was educated in computers and have worked with them for decades but when it comes to electronics I'm an utter numpty.

Oh, Dave, re-reading this I see I my meaning could be misconstrued. I was not inferring you are an utter numpty at computers at all, merely that i am with electronics and that with experience comes enhanced trouble-solving abilities.

I've seen no end of posts you've made about matters electronic where I would have been at a total loss and you have gotten further with computers than I have with circuits.

No offence intended of course, merely a clumsily written phrase. A good example of the perils of the written word!

What?! I never took the slightest hint that you were having a pop, intentionally or otherwise.

That I have made some progress with computers is down to the fact that I HAD to. I was also given a good memory for facts (now sadly failing a bit) which helps in both worlds.
Computers invade every sphere of life and I soon saw that digital audio was the only way to go. Yes there are some diehards clinging grimly on to tape with bloodied, crumbling fingernails but another decade will surely see all but the very well heeled or technically proficient gone?

Electronics you buy off the shelf and in any case there are safety issues, it is VERY hard to kill yourself inside a desktop PC! (how I got to my 16th birthday is a miracle since I was messing on a stone floor in a damp cellar with KT66s!). Therefore Eddy you didn't need to know how circuits worked, you just plugged them in. I am sure in any case you are smarter than you are letting on and can cope with fixing cables and such!

If there is one thing I have learned about computers it is...Never have just one. You need a second machine to surf the web when the other goes ape.... I have survived mainly due to a few good bods on forums ESPECIALLY SOS and Mr Walker!

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