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USB audio glitches / errors caused by 5600 XT GPU?

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USB audio glitches / errors caused by 5600 XT GPU?

Postby Will_m » Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:09 pm

I'm using an RME UFX+, its comes with a little control panel where it reports USB errors with a simple counter. I'm getting lots of errors reported that are audible as dropouts in and glitches in audio that sound a but like a CD player skipping.

The errors seem to occur when something graphical happens, so opening a plugin window like Omnisphere, opening a web browser tab, bringing up the video player in Cubase etc. i thought it might be the graphics card so I swapped out the AMD 5600 XT for my old GTX 1060 and it seems to have made the issue go away.

If this is the case then is there anything settings wise I could look at with the AMD GPU? I've never had a GPU cause audio issues like this. If it can't be solved I'm looking at getting something else instead, probably Nvidia as that's closer to what I have at present. The RTX 2060 series seems to be about equivalent to the 5600xt.

I'v tried RME support but they just won't respond. The UFX+ is great when it works but seems incredibly picky about what it will work with.
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Re: USB audio glitches / errors caused by 5600 XT GPU?

Postby Pete Kaine » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:28 pm

Have you tried the GPU in the other slots?
I'm clutching at straws, but I've not seen this before, admittedly I've not handled that card yet either.
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Re: USB audio glitches / errors caused by 5600 XT GPU?

Postby Will_m » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:41 pm

Pete Kaine wrote:Have you tried the GPU in the other slots?
I'm clutching at straws, but I've not seen this before, admittedly I've not handled that card yet either.

Thanks Pete, I'll give that a try, there's the next slot down it might just fit in. Failing that I might have to put in another Scan order and go crawling back to Nvidia as my GTX series seems fine.

Whilst I've got you, are there any BIOS tweaks you'd recommend for the asrock x570 boards? So far I've done the following:

Disabled Bluetooth
Disabled Wifi
Enabled Thunderbolt
Changed Memory Profile to XMP 2.0 (I have the Ryzen optimized 3600 ram kit)
Disabled Onboard Audio

On Intel I know its recommended to disable stuff like speedstep, c-states etc but on the AMD board I can't find them. Guessing they go by another name?
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Re: USB audio glitches / errors caused by 5600 XT GPU?

Postby The Elf » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:46 pm

I've had this with an incompatible USB card. Swapping the card for an RME-tested model sorted it out instantly (thanks, Pete!). Check what card you have and read up on RME's web site.
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Re: USB audio glitches / errors caused by 5600 XT GPU?

Postby Will_m » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:58 am

The Elf wrote:I've had this with an incompatible USB card. Swapping the card for an RME-tested model sorted it out instantly (thanks, Pete!). Check what card you have and read up on RME's web site.

The card is a Sonnet Allegro which runs the fresco logic chipset, according to RME this is fully compatible. It also works just fine in my previous build. Although RME also say that other chipsets are 'fully compatible' and I've found that they are not. The UFX+ seems incredibly picky about what it will run on.
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Re: USB audio glitches / errors caused by 5600 XT GPU?

Postby Pete Kaine » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:44 pm

Ahh, I'd forgotten the platform when I replied. The USB chipset on the X470/570's is ASMedia based as they farmed out the development to them. ASMedia are often an annoyance with some interface ranges and whilst I thought RME didn't have those problems, a quick Google would suggest I'm a little off the mark there.

https://vi-control.net/community/thread ... ons.86863/

So, delving further, think I might have to do the unthinkable....

Pg. 115 of the manual:
(Yes, I went there!)

Current Fireface UFX+ USB 3 Compatibility Information

Fully compatible to Intel's USB 3 implementation which - on current Windows and Mac
computers - is part of the chipset. USB 3 sockets that are connected via an internal cable
(not directly soldered onto the motherboard) can cause transmission errors (these are
shown in the Settings dialog).

Fully compatible to AMD's USB 3 implementation. USB 3 sockets that are connected via an
internal cable (not directly soldered onto the motherboard) can cause transmission errors
(shown in the Settings dialog).

Compatible to NEC / Renesas USB 3. Real-world performance and error-free operation
depend on the firmware version, driver version and the PCB layout of the respective extension card/motherboard.

Fully compatible to Fresco USB 3 chip.
Fully compatible to Via VL912, very often used in USB 3 hubs

ASMedia - not compatible
Etron EJ168A - not compatible
exas TUSB7340 - not compatible
Via VL800/805 - not compatible

The Fireface UFX+ is capable of using two different transmission modes to record data. The UFX+ defaults to Bulk Mode, which improves reliability of USB 3 audio tremendously and helps with both less than perfect cabling as well as critical layouts around the USB 3 chip. The standard’s default is Isochronous Streaming, which is unreliable as per the standard (errors are to be expected!), unreliable in real-world operation, and not correctly supported by popular USB 3 chips. In very seldom cases, bulk mode can not keep up with the strict timing required for continuous audio streaming. Then, to make the UFX+ work at all, isochronous mode must be used (but is still prone to clicks and drop-outs). To make the standard mode available as reference the Settings dialog includes an option to activate Isochronous Streaming.
The Fireface UFX+ also supports USB 2, where MADI record and playback channels are no
longer available (MADI can still be accessed via TotalMix FX). Good performance and click-free operation even at low buffer sizes are indeed possible on current computers.

However, using older computers a simple stereo playback might cause a CPU load of more than 30%.
Best USB 2 performance is achieved by connecting the UFX+ to its own bus, which should be no big problem as most USB 2.0 interfaces are a double bus design. A check in the

Device Manager can be done as follows:
Connect the UFX+ to a USB 2 port
Start the Device Manager, View set to Devices by Connection
Select ACPI x86-based PC, Microsoft ACPI-Compliant System, expand PCI Bus

This branch normally includes two entries of a USB2 Enhanced Host Controller. A USB Root Hub can be seen, which then connects all USB devices, including the UFX+. By reconnecting to a different port this view shows at which of the two controllers the UFX+ is connected. With multiple devices it can be checked if they are connected to the same controller. Further more this information can be used to operate an external USB drive without disturbing the UFX+, by simply connecting the drive to the other controller.
It can also be used to check where and in what combination USB 3 is used. In fact many modern motherboards have an additional chip to the mostly found Intel chipset, adding further USB 3 ports. But documentation is often unclear about which port/socket is connected to which chip.

By connecting the UFX+ and using the procedure above one can easily see the current connection, ensuring the UFX+ is really connected to the Intel chipset and not to some other flaky one.

Especially with notebooks, it can happen that all internal devices and all the sockets/ports are connected to the same controller, with the second controller not used at all. In that case all devices have to use the same bus and will interfere with each other.
A computer blocked for a short time – no matter if ASIO or WDM – will lose one or more data packets. Such problems can only be solved by increasing the buffer size (latency)

Outside of the Zoom units (well, and some Steinberg) I hadn't heard of any other USB issues on the current AMD chipsets and was starting to think we were in the clear. I guess there Isn't quite as many UFX+ owners out there, however.

The Elf is right, in that I guess I have seen it with a UFX and failed to recall it. He's running an Intel box through, so obviously a different chipset but possibly the same solution.

The odd thing in both instances is that the supported list above states that both are validated with it, so I guess it can be affected by other factors we might not be thinking about (BIOS versions, that kind of thing).

The solution for Elf's box from what I recall was PEXUSB3S4V as a drop-in card. It uses another approved chipset in the shape of the NEC/Renesys solution and sorted him right out.

https://www.startech.com/uk/Cards-Adapt ... PEXUSB3S4V

RRP is £50+ but street price is more like £35.
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Re: USB audio glitches / errors caused by 5600 XT GPU?

Postby Pete Kaine » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:51 pm

Will_m wrote:Whilst I've got you, are there any BIOS tweaks you'd recommend for the asrock x570 boards? So far I've done the following:

Disabled Bluetooth
Disabled Wifi
Enabled Thunderbolt
Changed Memory Profile to XMP 2.0 (I have the Ryzen optimized 3600 ram kit)
Disabled Onboard Audio

On Intel I know its recommended to disable stuff like speedstep, c-states etc but on the AMD board I can't find them. Guessing they go by another name?

They exist, or at least C-states will be somewhere. It varies from board to board, so I've not got anything generic I can give you. The rule I follow is to disable anything you don't need and then anything that clocks the chip down whilst allowing anything that raises it (turbo etc.. should be enabled for instance).

Test the DPC at this stage, if it passes, great forget about it and get on with something more interesting. Only if DPC is being an arse at that point should you concern yourself with chasing the rabbit further.
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Re: USB audio glitches / errors caused by 5600 XT GPU?

Postby Will_m » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:02 pm

Pete Kaine wrote:They exist, or at least C-states will be somewhere. It varies from board to board, so I've not got anything generic I can give you. The rule I follow is to disable anything you don't need and then anything that clocks the chip down whilst allowing anything that raises it (turbo etc.. should be enabled for instance).

Test the DPC at this stage, if it passes, great forget about it and get on with something more interesting. Only if DPC is being an arse at that point should you concern yourself with chasing the rabbit further.

Thanks Pete, I'll dig deeper and try and find C-Sates on the Asrock x570 Taichi, the manual is pretty useless but I'll shoot them an email, they were pretty good with some info on my TB card.

As for the USB add in card, as I was saying to Elf I already have the Sonnet Allegro card, which runs the fresco logic chipset. This card has been recommended by RME tech support.

I bought it for my last build as I was having issues with my Intel chipset USB ports, which funnily enough are 'fully supported' by RME. The Sonnet card cleared my issues straight away but on this system at least with the 5600 xt GPU, no such joy.
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Re: USB audio glitches / errors caused by 5600 XT GPU?

Postby Will_m » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:54 am

After some further testing I believe the 5600XT is the culprit. I tried swapping the GPU into another PCIe slot as well the sonnet USB card but I was still getting the USB errors.

After swapping in a GTX 1060 the problem seems to have gone completely so I'm confident the 5600XT card/drivers are responsible.

Hoping maybe Scan will let me swap it out for an Nvidia card.

If anything changes I'll update the thread but for now I'd recommend anyone putting an audio build together staying away from the 5600XT series.
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