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Why does it lie?

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Why does it lie?

Postby ef37a » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:01 pm

Wife has decided she is going to have another crack at getting on the internet (not going to happen!) So dutiful hubby dug out her old eMachines laptop and found a charger for it.

Yes, W7 but my old HP g6 has never been the least bothered since the 'desertion' so I thought I would give it a do.
I found the soundcard was not working correctly, no StereoMix for one thing. I therefore went to Dev Mang and requested Windows look for the latest drivers. After a minute it reported (always bloody does!) "The best driver for this device is already installed" and sound was still broken.

Today, after quite a trial I managed to download the 64bit Realtek driver. Took a while to download and even longer to install on the E525 (2G ram!) but once done Stereo Mix was back and a check with iPlayer R3 and Audacity confirmed operation.

SO! When Ms SAY they search the internet for the best drivers they patently do not!

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Re: Why does it lie?

Postby The Elf » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:36 pm

Been there, done that. MS set themselves up for a fall with that dialogue - it creates an expectation they never stood a chance of meeting.
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Re: Why does it lie?

Postby wireman » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:52 pm

ef37a wrote:SO! When Ms SAY they search the internet for the best drivers they patently do not!

You are forgetting that it is Microsoft who decide what is best for you.
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Re: Why does it lie?

Postby The Red Bladder » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:56 pm

It's not quite that insidious! It's just that MS disbanded their W7 team a long time ago, so any subsequent third-party improvements are obviously ignored by the MS W7 website.
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Re: Why does it lie?

Postby ef37a » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:10 pm

The Red Bladder wrote:It's not quite that insidious! It's just that MS disbanded their W7 team a long time ago, so any subsequent third-party improvements are obviously ignored by the MS W7 website.

So that's TWO lies!! I am sure though Red I have always had this problem, in fact I have a USB 3 notebook adapter that has stopped working and Ms said the driver was up to date for W10.
Just going to put the card back and check that.

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Re: Why does it lie?

Postby Agharta » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:25 pm

ef37a wrote:SO! When Ms SAY they search the internet for the best drivers they patently do not!

Well of course they don’t search the whole internet.
Presumably they only list drivers that have been registered with them?
So does that imply that all and only MS certified drivers will be checked?
I have very low expectations of MS these days, but if a driver hasn’t been through the due process that’s hardly their fault.
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Re: Why does it lie?

Postby The Elf » Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:07 pm

Agharta wrote:if a driver hasn’t been through the due process that’s hardly their fault.
I've met MANY people who believe they're on the latest driver, becasue MS says so. I can sympathise that it's a tough thing to do, but in that case don't claim it!
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Re: Why does it lie?

Postby ef37a » Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:19 pm

The Elf wrote:
Agharta wrote:if a driver hasn’t been through the due process that’s hardly their fault.
I've met MANY people who believe they're on the latest driver, becasue MS says so. I can sympathise that it's a tough thing to do, but in that case don't claim it!

Agreed, a part of me always thought I suppose that it was pretty impossible in the time frame. Mind you, Realtek audio has been around forever so Ms should surely have those drivers?

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Re: Why does it lie?

Postby Wonks » Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:35 pm

MS normally only update to the latest full number version, so that may be V4.0.0, whilst the latest drivers are V4.6.63 etc.
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Re: Why does it lie?

Postby Agharta » Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:24 pm

Microsoft will only have what they are given.
When they say you have the latest drivers then this can only relate to their own database.
They could change the wording to make this clear though.
They do have formal channels for those wanting to give them feedback on this issue.
I tend to only use them as a last resort and go to the vendor first.
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Re: Why does it lie?

Postby Pete Kaine » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:19 pm

Yeah, it only pulls from their qualified database, so only drivers that have been submitted for the full WHQL process will be in there.

Even the big firms only submit maybe 4 or 5 times a year (I'm thinking GPU firms, due to the time and effort it requires. So, if a platform leaves cycle, the WHQL testing is halted and no further updates are added to the database once they consider legacy.

I always say you should go to the manufacturer site when doing driver updates, this is essentially the reason.

Notes on the WHQL process for anyone interested. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHQL_Testing

It has worked well for MS as it's reduced a lot of support issues over the years in regards to having a whole host of drivers that are ready to run and work out of the box. Anyone who's ever done a clean install of XP vs W7 vs W10 can probably attest to that.

I do agree that they should be a lot clearer with the public on what the database does/doesn't contain but then Microsoft and public documentation below TechNet level do seem to be uniquely alien concepts.
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Re: Why does it lie?

Postby ef37a » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:26 pm

Thanks Pete.
So, even the statement "Windows will now scan the internet for the latest drivers" is a porky because they are only scanning their OWN database!

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Re: Why does it lie?

Postby Martin Walker » Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:30 pm

ef37a wrote:Thanks Pete.
So, even the statement "Windows will now scan the internet for the latest drivers" is a porky because they are only scanning their OWN database!

Dave.

Exactly - I found this out recently when I was attempting to update my graphic drivers, and found quite a few versions on the manufacturers own web site that were released many months more recently than the 'latest' ones according to Microsoft :headbang:


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Re: Why does it lie?

Postby Folderol » Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:24 pm

The thing is, Microsfot want their vict^H^H^H^H customers to believe they are the custodians of the entire Internet :roll:
That was a typo, but it sounds right :bouncy:
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