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Windows 7 PC suddenly powers off

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Windows 7 PC suddenly powers off

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 11:03 pm
by Marbury
Help! I have an older windows 7 PC I am needing to get access to as my new pc is windows 10. The last time I powered it up was about 6 weeks ago and it was working fine. Now, after about a minute it just turns off in a sudden death way, no shut down or warning.

First thing I have checked are fans by powering on with the case open. All fans working (PSU/heat sink etc) and no strange noises. Clean as a whistle inside with no dust, but again it powers off after about 1 min.

As I don't want to risk knackering the system for good, am I right thinking the PSU could be causing this bearing in mind it worked perfectly the last time I powered it on ? Another reason I think this is I have left it weeks before powering on, something it has not been used to being used on an almost daily basis before I got my new system.

This is the PSU in question which has been running since 2013

https://www.amazon.co.uk/quiet-Pure-Pow ... B005JRGVAW

Re: Windows 7 PC suddenly powers off

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 6:40 am
by innerchord
Hi,
Sorry to hear you're having troubles.

A quick checklist from memory:
1) Reseat EVERYTHING and retest
2) Try with fewer/different RAM modules
3) Check/swap PSU
4) Suspect heat (e.g. CPU, due to dried-out thermal compound)
5) Motherboard BIOS reset
6) New CMOS battery
7) Failing peripheral (e.g. hard disk)
8) Failing (mother)board (due to faulty capacitors)

Once you have some clues, you can narrow down the problem.

I'd try the CMOS battery first! Good luck!

Also, if you simply need to transfer data from the old hard drive(s) you could use an external enclosure and transfer data that way.

Re: Windows 7 PC suddenly powers off

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 8:15 am
by ef37a
When it shuts down can you just push the button and power it back up? If so that indicates to me that the PSU is ok since DC is still there to actuate the relay.

PC PSUs seem to be Enemy #1suspect when things go wrong but in some 15yrs of buggering about with mostly desktops I have never had one fail.

I would start the PC in Safe Mode and see if it shuts down then.

Pull all the PCI cards out including graphics if the MOBO has its own. If it has more than one memory stick run with just one. Diss' any extra drives. Process of elimination really.
You have the covers off? Fire it up and gently tap around with a screwdriver handle, there is nothing outside of the PSU can that can hurt you but do NOT go into that!

I am sure Pete K or another bod knows of a way to get a 'log' of the system which might tell you something...Do it for bloody cars!

Dave.

Re: Windows 7 PC suddenly powers off

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 9:59 am
by Pete Kaine
If it just turns off, then the likelihood is that it won't have logged anything.

It might have written something back on restart I guess, you can try checking in here: https://www.howtogeek.com/166911/reliab ... ent-using/

It's a 7 yr old PSU and the Bronze ones weren't rated for that long back then, so I could see it as getting a bit long in the tooth. Sudden shut downs would hint at a PSU being the first port of call too, so certainly something I would look to check given the symptoms.

Re: Windows 7 PC suddenly powers off

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 11:21 am
by Marbury
Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, it shuts down and will not power back on unless I leave it a couple of mins. This also happened when my K6 usb socket was dicky (kindly now replaced by Dave). It caused the pc to freeze, displaying a usb error message and would not power back on for a while if that gives any more clues ? Funny enough, when I used the same power cable to power my new pc, it hung endlessly in bootup mode and I had to reset where it was fine. Still concerned me though as a power cable surely would not transfer problems to my new pc ?

I have a mirror copy of this hard drive so nothing lost, I just would like to have it as a back up machine if this new one goes down as it's still pretty decent (when not shutting off)

Incidentally, and going off topic a little (if you see my other post) it's nice to have it as it isn't noisy like my new machine through the monitors (still scratching my head over that), But what really gets me is the new machine, faster processor, motherboard and more ram still gets popping, zipping and crackles running some patches in Omnisphere running in Reaper. I have tried many different settings in the ASIO with latency, bit rate etc and all to no avail.

Back on topic, what I can't understand is why it would suddenly power off when it was working perfectly last time. Nothing has changed, and everything is firmly where it should be.

Re: Windows 7 PC suddenly powers off

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 11:35 am
by The Elf
Get inside and clean out the fluff. I've had success in similar scenarios by doing that. And make sure that all the fans are spinning freely.

Re: Windows 7 PC suddenly powers off

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 12:00 pm
by Marbury
The Elf wrote:Get inside and clean out the fluff. I've had success in similar scenarios by doing that. And make sure that all the fans are spinning freely.

That was the first thing I did and it was already clean.

Re: Windows 7 PC suddenly powers off

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 6:47 pm
by Wonks
Marbury wrote:Back on topic, what I can't understand is why it would suddenly power off when it was working perfectly last time. Nothing has changed, and everything is firmly where it should be.
That's simply what happen when components age out of a working tolerance. It works, and the next time it doesn't.

I've had a failing PSU before. I could get the PC to work for a while by discontinuing/removing extra hard drives and the CD drive so there was less load on the PSU, but even then it started to fail after a week or so. A new PSU sorted it out.

Re: Windows 7 PC suddenly powers off

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 9:50 am
by Marbury
Wonks wrote:
Marbury wrote:Back on topic, what I can't understand is why it would suddenly power off when it was working perfectly last time. Nothing has changed, and everything is firmly where it should be.
That's simply what happen when components age out of a working tolerance. It works, and the next time it doesn't.

I've had a failing PSU before. I could get the PC to work for a while by discontinuing/removing extra hard drives and the CD drive so there was less load on the PSU, but even then it started to fail after a week or so. A new PSU sorted it out.

Quite happy to replace the PSU but only if certain that is the culprit. I have already disconnected the CD rom to go in my new machine some time ago. I will say that the fan on the PSU is still running.

Re: Windows 7 PC suddenly powers off

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 11:33 am
by Pete Kaine
Marbury wrote:I will say that the fan on the PSU is still running.

Not uncommon, the fan switches on with the PSU but if the voltage to the chip or board isn't quite enough then it won't complete POST.

Re: Windows 7 PC suddenly powers off

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 11:39 am
by CS70
If I understand well you've recently worked with that pc - removing components to move to your new ones and otherwise working inside the case?

If that's so, the most likely reasons for what you experience are that either you have inadvertently dislodged some connector a little, or that some stray charge on your hands/equipment has damaged some component or the motherboard. Obviously it's possible that it's a simple age issue and it would have occurred even if you hadn't opened the case, but the timing is suspect :)

The behavior suggests either a random power interruption (bad cable/soldering somewhere) or a self-protection shutdown. In this latter case, you could see if the BIOS or even the event log has some form of system log or trace to see what's happening - if the shutdown is abrupt but intentional, there may be time for the firmware or the OS to log something.

Hopefully it's the first possibility - a dislodged component: if you haven't done so, systematically check all the cabling from and to the motherboard (and even look for damaged cables.. it's perfectly possible to pull a cable wrongly and it looks good from outside but inside some contact has become flimsy) and ensure they are firmly locked in their place. Same with all the cards and memory sticks. Also start with the minimum system - one or two RAM sticks, motherboard, no USB connections, onboard graphic card etc. Then add one component at the time.

If a minimal system still shows the problem then its time to take out the voltmeter and measure... (and others are definitely more qualified than me in providing advice on how to use the contraptions :D).

Re: Windows 7 PC suddenly powers off

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 11:47 am
by Marbury
All the cabling is fine and def not dislodged anything as it has worked a few times post opening and taking out the drive etc. All the ram is firmly placed. I don't have access to a voltmeter so I can't check that. Its so frustrating as it will just be another pile of junk if I don't get it fixed. I just hate variables of it could be this, it could be that, especially when it could cost a new PSU which I may not need in the end.

Re: Windows 7 PC suddenly powers off

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 12:04 pm
by CS70
Marbury wrote:All the cabling is fine and def not dislodged anything as it has worked a few times post opening and taking out the drive etc. All the ram is firmly placed. I don't have access to a voltmeter so I can't check that. Its so frustrating as it will just be another pile of junk if I don't get it fixed. I just hate variables of it could be this, it could be that, especially when it could cost a new PSU which I may not need in the end.

I sympathize, but it is what it is. Either you debug - and often you have to learn how to do it and which tools you need to do it and how to use them - or it stays a pile of junk.

There's also the option of bringing it to one of these "computer fixing" services, they're often cheap and cheerful and worth the money.. I know how to fix stuff but last time I had an issue on one of my PCs I brought it to one and a couple days later got it back fixed - it was the thermal glue on the CPU which has desiccated and made the CPU overheat and shut down. I would have found it eventually had I tried, but it would have taken days which I did not want to invest, at all - I'm way past when I found debugging hardware fun. :) So worth a thought.

I learnt my lesson the first time I fixed a car carburetor, at around 19... :-D

Re: Windows 7 PC suddenly powers off

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 12:05 pm
by The Elf
I'll be 'that guy'...

There comes a point where the time, cost, risk and frustration of chasing a fix is the greater evil to buying a new machine. I realise that's not always practical, and I know you're looking to save any money you can, but unfortunately it needs to be faced. :cry:

You could buy a new PSU, and it may even work, but that's an old machine now - there are plenty of other components in there reaching the same age.

The advice I give to family and friends is to keep a PC for two years and sell it on while it has some good residual value. The amount you will lose in buying a step up each two years will be offset by fewer repairs/upgrades and ending up with a piece of tin worth nothing 5 years down the line.

Not bashing you while you're down, mate. :oops: :frown: Meant with the best of intentions.

Just seen your other thread. Hopefully we can get that one running smoothly for you!

Re: Windows 7 PC suddenly powers off

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 12:55 pm
by OneWorld
What exactly do yu need to get off the old WIn7 machine - is it just data? if so why not take out the HDD and fit it too the new/Win10 PC and copy the data across. By the way, I find one of those external disk readers - has IDE, SATA, USB, SDD functionality. I thin I got it from Scan Computers (no I don't work for them!) and it was about £20 post free