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Does any one buy software?

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Re: Does any one buy software?

Postby Martin Walker » Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:34 pm

infiniteloop wrote:Martin Walker....Why don't you read my reply properly..?

infiniteloop - you didn't make yourself very clear.

First you said "I don't have a 9 - 5 job and make music as a hobby"
...and then in the next post " I said I don't have a 9-5 job and don't make music as just a 'hobby'".

Can you spot the difference between these two comments?

However, how I managed to become a "do-good bible thumper" defeats me :headbang:


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Re: Does any one buy software?

Postby Skyline » Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:42 pm

I buy my software, not because I want to support the companies so development continues, but for a much simpler reason. The same reason why I don't steal anything else: it's becuase I'm not a thieving little toe rag. I'm bored with all the feeble excuses we see on forums for downright dishonest behaviour from oiks who'd probably steal my credit card if they had the chance because of tripe like (i) He can probably afford it, or (ii) The big companies can easily write it off, or (iii) "I'm not well off so I'll redistribute the wealth in my direction." With so many self-justifying wingeing thieving scrotes around it's no wonder the country's in such a state. Of course, if any of you sad dishonest bedroom musos ever compose anything of merit you will of course expect the full majesty of the law to descend on anyone who offends your copyright..
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Re: Does any one buy software?

Postby TTN » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:17 pm

Martin Walker wrote:
First you said "I don't have a 9 - 5 job and make music as a hobby"
...and then in the next post " I said I don't have a 9-5 job and don't make music as just a 'hobby'".

I assumed he meant that he was not a hobbyist, and therefore did not have a 9-5 job, he just wanted to avoid the double negative perhaps.
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Re: Does any one buy software?

Postby Andi » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:57 pm

So Infinite, it's all because the nasty manufacturers don't make the top of the range software "affordable" for you whilst somehow having a resposibility to provide you with a living? How affordable would that be, £200, £100, £50, free, they deliver it with a tenner and a plate of hobnobs? I'd have more respect if you said "I'm going to steal it and I don't care" but your lilly-livered attempt at justification is pathetic.
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Re: Does any one buy software?

Postby Smithee » Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:19 pm

jellyjim wrote:
infiniteloop wrote:Martin Walker....Why don't you read my reply properly..?
Be nice to Martin, he's Cornish.
But we don't hold it against him :D .

It seems pretty clear to me, if you want to buy something, you need a job. No job, no money and no product. The issue seems to go beyond just software.

It's been a while since we had a good ol' fashioned thread on piracy :beamup:
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Re: Does any one buy software?

Postby Spangler » Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:05 pm

Martin Walker wrote:
So I was pleased to receive a press release from Arbiter here in the UK a few days ago with the news that the price of Cubase SL has now dropped from about £280 to just £199 - it does everything that most musicians need.

Oh arse.
(paid 240 about 4 weeks ago!)
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Re: Does any one buy software?

Postby Martin Walker » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:22 am

Smithee wrote:
jellyjim wrote:Be nice to Martin, he's Cornish.
But we don't hold it against him :D

Actually I'm not Cornish (I've only lived here for about three years, and you have to be here for at least three generations to be accepted, and even then not as Cornish - that has to be in your bones for centuries ;))


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Re: Does any one buy software?

Postby jellyjim » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:49 am

Martin Walker wrote:
Smithee wrote:
jellyjim wrote:Be nice to Martin, he's Cornish.
But we don't hold it against him :D

Actually I'm not Cornish (I've only lived here for about three years, and you have to be here for at least three generations to be accepted, and even then not as Cornish - that has to be in your bones for centuries ;))


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I loik the Corns I do. They call trainers pumps and say "alright my cock!" and they're not talking about your little chap! They have their own language ... tho only about three and half people are left alive who can speak it. The Aphex Twin is from down that way. They've got lots of countryside'n'stuff. I've got relatives in Truro, Camborne, Redruth and my folks have a nice little cottage in Marazion near Penzance.

Anyway I digress, back to business "Oi infiniteloop stop nicking software you toerag!" :D
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Re: Does any one buy software?

Postby Dunewar » Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:13 am

I changed from all pirated software to all legitimate software. I purchased Pro-Tools M-powered to record our demo on, instead of using the cracked copy of cubase that had been on my hard-drive. I did this for several reasons :

- I make money out of gigs, and the demo gets me gigs, so play-time is over. I expect to be payed, so do the developers.

- At last : decent software support. Instead of looking all over the net for the latest crack or update I can just download it from digidesign itself, with proper documentation.

- Software isn't expensive. The highest price you pay is for the initial purchase, but updates are (IMHO) pretty cheap. Since I bought pro-tools i've gotten an update to version 7.0, a decent virtual instrument (Xpand), a limited (but by no means insufficiënt) version of ableton Live 5 etc... All for free. I can upgrade Live to a full version for half the price I would pay new, and I never bought anything before frome them. As has been pointed out here, Cubase LE does more then most musicians need, and you can't argue with the price. I bought Pro-tools M-powered for 260€ online. A single good mic can cost more.

- Restrictions are good! Do I really need the 75 soft-synths i can download in one day? NO. I only got a few, and I've gotten to know them. Spending money on software has got me thinking a lot more on what I actually need, instead of just downloading it and browsing presets. At least I'm taking time to get to know the program.

- My live rig consists of 5000+ € of hardware, yet i never even considered stealing my instruments instead of buying them. Why is everyone more willing to pay for hardware then for software? Because you can touch it, and stealing it feels a lot more like a crime? It is the same thing though. If I had another 5000€ in software, I wouldn't know what to do with it! So don't tell me software is expensive, hardware is a lot more expensive. You probably pay a lot more for the computer you use then for the programs that run on it...Talk about strange priorities.

But.

I must admit that pirated software thought me what was possible. If it weren't for pirated software I'd still be working on a early ACID version that came with a Creative Labs card. So it worked for me, but now i'm taking responsability.
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Re: Does any one buy software?

Postby Shifty99 » Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:22 am

Ableton have a great 2 layer method of copy protection :

The basic 'Challenge' & 'Unlock code' seems to have been cracked many times by different warez groups, the software is freely available on the major file sharers.

However.....

The crack only works for about a month, then the secondardy copy protection kicks in and 'locks' the songs that the crack user has been working on and comes up with a message 'copy protection violation - please contact [email]support@Ableton.com'.[/email]

Re-installing the software (even from a completeley blank hard disk) wont work either, because as soon as one of these 'locked' song is loaded back in the software won't work anymore. Very clever - the secondary level of protection must be embedded very deep within the software.

It must be funny seeing how many emails Ableton suppport get from Crack users...

And before anyone asks, yes I did buy a copy. :angel:
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Re: Does any one buy software?

Postby electrotimba » Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:11 pm

I had so much of bad experience with Steinberg that I would never again pay for any of their software again. Crack user gets better deal then the fool ( as I once was) who pays.
I hate them and their policies of treating customers like sh... or thieves.

I hate them so much that using a crack ( which we all know can work so well that there must be some other reasons then practical use to buy that software) would be too much of honoring them.
I am sorry but I dont buy any of that rubbish how better your computer works when you install legit version.Know many studios and individuals using cracks since ages ( some of them having legit versions uninstalled on a shelf)without any trouble. I believe in decency not watchdogs. Want to be respected, respect others, you steal, sooner or later you will be robbed. This is not some hippie philosophy just observation from real life.My simple solution regarding those b...y dongle fixated maniacs I dont buy, dont use, woudnt use even if given as endorsment for free.
I dont buy either the lame excuse of crack users " because I am poor student" come on, dont insult the people in Asia or Africa who might be really poor, you move your a... and in few days sweeping McDonalds can buy any software (I dont talk Sequoia here) not to say that you get free software with almost any audio/midi product you buy these days with functionality way ahead of software used decade ago to make top notch pro productions.
So myself I make my choice and use and support companies that do right thing.
Ableton is one of them, I always blindly upgrade even though do not even need that much the newer features just want to support further development.
Their demo policies are the best. When I tried Samplitude i coudnt actually test anything, so will never bother to buy it.
Ableton demo works 100% except save, they even advise the user to keep one on standby as you can perform with demo version in case something goes wrong and there is no time to activate.
I feel some companies are shooting themselves in the foot with their dongles and miserable support ( my record holder is Steinberg,once received their response after 11 months, on the phone got them once , after few hours but that was 5 years ago).
Have some little problems with Ableton, received E mail response within hours and called them few times, there was no onwait and damned multiplechoice quiz- "press one, press two"
There is no better dongle, security then users who believe and respect the developers
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Re: Does any one buy software?

Postby caveman82 » Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:32 pm

jellyjim wrote:
Anyway I digress, back to business "Oi infiniteloop stop nicking software you toerag!" :D

Software stealing Infiniteloop 0 - Rest of Bible Thumping SoundOnSound forum 1

I had to get that in, it's the world cup!

But really there's no real argument to downloading cracked software, like there is for downloading mp3's. However it is a problem that will always exist. Personally I believe that Native Instruments have one of the best policies towards piracy by seeking to reward those who buy opposed to punishing the ones who don't.

A great thing for illegal mp3's and software is that the ease of obtainment (physical and monetary) leads to excitement being lost.
I'm a big of Tool (forgive me father for my sins) and saw the most recent lp leaked for months before the official release.
Such a temptation must be resisted, as the experience of rushing to the shops, buying the lp, taking it out of the package, and listening to it is a great little pleasure of life, and the same with buying software as well. Select purchases are always more pleasurable than a vast multitude of purchases (this is applicable to most things, apart from beer)

However it being the 21st century and all if anything the companies could seek to gain on a negative, Nailbunny's point is perfect (to the extent he implied!)

Nailbunny wrote:for every 10 people that have a cracked version 1 person has bought a copy. This is just viral marketing really and could be good for the company.

We live in times where the internet is used often in unconvential ways, that before their recognition the validity for a means of marketing were doubted until their success. The Blair Witch Project coems to mind instantly.

Could cracked software be a viable means for communication? Only sales can really tell, but telling the impact of marketing upon them, inclusive of cracked software or not, is a very tricky issue, it's just the inherrent vague nature of marketing.

So ultimately it goes down to the customer to recognise the company for their merits. We live in capitalist society where financial indication are the most relevant. Without a purchase then the companies will not know if anyone is buying their product. If no one is buying your product then why should they make it? Show some loyalty, buy the CD and buy the software, and most of all support the industry, whether it is the CD's, the gigs, the software, hardware manufacturers etc. If you take away one aspect, just one, then it could f**k things up, and presuming we all love music (as why else would be here?) would we ever want that to happen?
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Re: Does any one buy software?

Postby John Willett » Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:34 pm

electrotimba wrote:I had so much of bad experience with Steinberg that I would never again pay for any of their software again.

If you are in the UK talk to Arbiter - they are the UK distributors and I have found them very helpful - very good service.
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Re: Does any one buy software?

Postby Dunewar » Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:38 pm

I would have to agree that certain software companies are a royal pain in the a** when it comes to security. I'm all for copy protection, but don't punish your user with it. The many many threads about Waves come to mind here...

I think Native Instruments have got a good way of using a carrot/stick. They have a copy protection scheme (that of course has been cracked), but they also have nice extra's (such as the Reaktor user base) that are only available to registered users. Don't spend so much time punishing false cliëntsn, reward the good ones!
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Re: Does any one buy software?

Postby electrotimba » Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:43 pm

John Willett wrote:
electrotimba wrote:I had so much of bad experience with Steinberg that I would never again pay for any of their software again.

If you are in the UK talk to Arbiter - they are the UK distributors and I have found them very helpful - very good service.
I am not, but noticed that for whatever reason UK supports are the best even M audio ( with which I am through forever anyway), Focusrite has excellent support too.
I think the companies dont realise that unlike in consumers world in pro audio good support might be deciding factor.
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