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getting rid of that crappy piezo acoustic live sound..

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Re: getting rid of that crappy piezo acoustic live sound..

Postby Jack Ruston » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:42 am

I actually paid to have an expensive piezo and preamp removed from a guitar and the holes filled so that never again could it make that horrible squawking pingy sound. I've never heard one sound good at a gig either. It's really difficult. You'll have to compromise in some way.

Sorry this is so unhelpful.

J
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Re: getting rid of that crappy piezo acoustic live sound..

Postby Frisonic » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:59 pm

Jack Ruston wrote:I actually paid to have an expensive piezo and preamp removed from a guitar and the holes filled so that never again could it make that horrible squawking pingy sound. I've never heard one sound good at a gig either. It's really difficult. You'll have to compromise in some way.

Sorry this is so unhelpful.

J

I did laugh when I read that! I've done the same. The reason piezos sound a bit like the pinging sound when one navy's ship is tracking down another navy's submarine is because piezos came out of sonar technology. It was the best available choice at the time. And I'm not saying there isn't a place for that sound. I do have a guitar with a piezo in it (not an acoustic though). But its limited.
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Re: getting rid of that crappy piezo acoustic live sound..

Postby _ Six _ » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:30 pm

The Fishman Aura pedal will get you in the right ball park and increase tone but you're looking at a hefty investment.

I'd personally just mic the guitar and have done with it.
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Re: getting rid of that crappy piezo acoustic live sound..

Postby russ123 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:01 pm

i have a d-tar mama bear, silly name but it does improve the sound of my taylor/expression system. it has pre sets but also has some variable tweakability. very good for DI studio stuff too.
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Re: getting rid of that crappy piezo acoustic live sound..

Postby DoeZer » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:47 am

thanks a lot folks...

i have had some luck using EQ on my desk i have an 01V96 which has avery nice parametric EQ..

notching out frequencies at ~400Hz and another at around 3000Hz the sound has cleaned up immensely..

just playing it thri the PA now i find it pretty clean sounding. not as "raggedy".
have to try playing it out live now but we'll see....

cheers
d
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Re: getting rid of that crappy piezo acoustic live sound..

Postby shufflebeat » Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:54 pm

DoeZer wrote:hi folks

and thank to all..
whilst i would agree with those who said "piezo is piezo" so your stuck with it.

i dont think i can afford to go the whole "double pickup acoustic system route" right now, with a mic in the hole and a piezo underneath and a blender to mix them etc,, not mention still needing a DI box after that..

i might try check some of the DIs mentioned first? Para Driver from Sansamp, LR Baggs Venue also looks very tasty with tuner and everything on board... ;)

One last thing!! I have a piece of studio gear. The tfpro P3 optical compressor/preamp.
i ran the guitar thru it with the compressor off. just the EQ on, and even the EQ was set almost flat.... were my ears deceiving my or could i be right in that it improved the sound a lot?? i mean i had the compressor off and the EQ on but it was set to flat... but there seemed to be more clarity... could be just the preamp working..

anyway i might just use that live instead and save a few $$$!!

thanks
d

Just reread this.

That makes sense. A lot of the problem with piezo pickups is that brutal initial transient. The best systems have some way of taming it, the Takamine Cool Tube for instance sucks some of it away leaving an overall softer sound. The Aura when properly set up kind of fragments it so it's still very forward but somehow more '3d'.

Your compressor will be doing a similar job but only that, a dedicated guitar unit will do lots of other things besides, feedback killer, EQ, fx, tuner, etc.
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Re: getting rid of that crappy piezo acoustic live sound..

Postby ef37a » Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:27 am

IvanSC wrote:recently got a 00016 martin and fitted an old fishman rare earth Mk1 pickup, using it with an external fishman pre and it sounds way too much like an electric guitar for me.

Maybe I need to consider either an additional peizo bridge element or an internal mic, but I really dont fancy hacking the guitar around any more than I have to.

Anyone have any thoughts on this side of things?

Just spotted this Ive!
The problem with peizo pups is that they need a very high input impedance, 5meg or better 10. Very few preamps and pedals give this (tho' I would have thought that Fishman should?). A jfet buffer with a 10meg input Z is a pretty easy build for anyone who has basic soldering skills. Get in touch (anyone) if you want chap'&verse.

Dave.
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Re: getting rid of that crappy piezo acoustic live sound..

Postby shufflebeat » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:41 am

ef37a wrote:
IvanSC wrote:recently got a 00016 martin and fitted an old fishman rare earth Mk1 pickup, using it with an external fishman pre and it sounds way too much like an electric guitar for me.

Maybe I need to consider either an additional peizo bridge element or an internal mic, but I really dont fancy hacking the guitar around any more than I have to.

Anyone have any thoughts on this side of things?

Just spotted this Ive!
The problem with peizo pups is that they need a very high input impedance, 5meg or better 10. Very few preamps and pedals give this (tho' I would have thought that Fishman should?). A jfet buffer with a 10meg input Z is a pretty easy build for anyone who has basic soldering skills. Get in touch (anyone) if you want chap'&verse.

Dave.

I've been looking for an AKG c411 to have in the box on recommendations from this forum. The only reservation I have is the low mid on stage. It's always very busy in that area and particularly volatile for any system. It strikes me that if you fancy running 2 channels you would be able to make the best of both approaches.

Dave, I've made some buffer preamps over the years, some more successful than others, I'd be interested to see how you'd do it. With the price of on board boxes with all kinds of bells and whistles means I'll probably not tackle another one but the curiosity remains.
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Re: getting rid of that crappy piezo acoustic live sound..

Postby ef37a » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:30 pm

http://www.till.com/articles/GuitarPreamp/

^ Works ok. A TL071 would be more linear. R1 you just up to 10meg. If you wanted more gain and a lower op resistance slap 47mfd accross R2, even better is a PNP bipolar T follower but peeps get all purist about such things!

Dave.
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Re: getting rid of that crappy piezo acoustic live sound..

Postby shufflebeat » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:59 pm

That's very cute. I can smell solder.

Ta muchly, Dave.
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Re: getting rid of that crappy piezo acoustic live sound..

Postby AsherMyersMusic » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:04 am

I taped a lavalier mic inside an acoustic guitar I have. Obviously it doesn’t always sound great, so fiddle with the placement of it a little bit. I taped mine basically under where the bridge is, a little bit closer to the B&E strings, with the microphone (omnidirectional pattern) facing the back of the body. I usually then stick an Sm57 or any dynamic mic just about at the 11th or 12th fret facing just off axis of the soundhole. Mix the two mics together and BOOM. Incredible results, even just using the mic inside the body without the 57 outside. I’ve heard countless acoustic electric pickups and even nice expensive ones that just never pulled it off for me. Go with a lav mic inside (i use the SM93 going right into the mixer or preamp) and a mic outside the body. You’ll never look at acoustic electrics the same...
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