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Diagnose the source of my intonation issues

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Re: Diagnose the source of my intonation issues

Postby Studio Support Gnome » Wed May 14, 2008 9:12 am

it sounds like the nut is a little high.

it's also worth noting, that for truly precise intonation, as well as being set up for action height etc, a guitar's bridge must be adjusted for a given tuning....


this is not practical on almost any acoustic.... so , once you've got it as best it can be, for one tuning (std usually) , then you have to live with the minor irritants when you move to altered tunings..

I know players who have several otherwise identical instruments set up for a specific tuning.... because they cannot make that compromise "work" for them.... seems mad , but i can well understand it...
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Re: Diagnose the source of my intonation issues

Postby Jack Ruston » Wed May 14, 2008 9:32 am

The space between the nut and the 1st fret is 'wrong' on a normal guitar...I think...You can get Charlie Chandler to do the Buzz Feiten thing which will correct it and does involve fitting a 'displaced' nut amongst other things to correct that. It's not cheap.

J
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Re: Diagnose the source of my intonation issues

Postby Humphreysbogort » Wed May 14, 2008 2:55 pm

Right... so how would i go about lowering the nut....?

Would i deepen the grooves or shave a bit off the bottom of the nut...

How do i remove the nut from the guitar...it seems glued on. And indeed how would i glue it back on?

Better left to a professional?

I recently went to see a proffesional acoustic performer using a lowden cutaway. He also used lots of different tunings, using the same guitar. Even one song his E string went down to a low A!

He did all the tunings by ear very quickly and they all were bang on all the way up the kneck. How on earth did he manage that?
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Re: Diagnose the source of my intonation issues

Postby dubbmann » Wed May 14, 2008 5:29 pm

hi,

i play fingerstyle and use lots of unisons and octaves, which show intonation issues more than any other intervals - if a 5th is 5 cents sharp or flat you'd be hard pressed to hear it but w/a unison you'd have beats that ruin the interval. anyway, in my experience (30 years playing) the intonation is largely set when the guitar is built, w/a little play available via the truss rod, bridge, and nut but not enough to fix serious intonation problems. and the sad truth is that some very beautifully made guitars end up w/a subtle skew or twist in the neck that makes intonating the full fretboard impossible. this is one of several reasons i would never buy a gtr over the net. always play it for a while in the shop and don't compromise until you find one that sings.

i have guitars i love that have intonation issues and i adjust my chord voicings accordingly to avoid parts of their fretboards where i know i'll have problems. your problem sounds like it may be more tractable if the capo on the 1st fret results in correct intonation all along the neck. the real problem is the twisted neck, which will result in intonation problems that affect some strings and not others. but i'd seriously have a luthhier do the work. there are some things (open heart surgery comes to mind) where a bit of DIY is not what's needed =:-O

cheers,

d

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Re: Diagnose the source of my intonation issues

Postby zenguitar » Thu May 15, 2008 3:40 am

The Producer Formerly Known As Jack wrote:The space between the nut and the 1st fret is 'wrong' on a normal guitar...I think...You can get Charlie Chandler to do the Buzz Feiten thing which will correct it and does involve fitting a 'displaced' nut amongst other things to correct that. It's not cheap.

J

Sorry, not quite right. The space between the nut and 1st fret is exactly right and derived from 1st principles. It is not perfect, but whatever tuning you use, it delivers an instrument that is more or less in tune. That is the nature of equally tempered tuning.

For centuries luthiers have used nut compensation to address tuning issues and these principles are well established.

Buzz Feiten has been granted rights in the USA for a very specific formula for nut compensation. No other country in the world would have granted these rights because of the overwhelming amount of evidence that this is already well established practice within luthiery.

The Buzz Feiten system is a very specific set of adjustments to re-distribute the out of tuneness that is inherent in any guitar to optimise it for standard tuning. It does this by deliberately putting some notes out of tune in order to pull other notes closer. Because these adjustments are made at the nut it is a convenience for marketing purposes to say that the nut is in the wrong place.

Also, it only works for standard tuning. I can make other tunings worse

Andy :beamup:
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Re: Diagnose the source of my intonation issues

Postby dubbmann » Thu May 15, 2008 6:03 am

zenguitar wrote:I can make other tunings worse

Andy :beamup:

sounds like something dr. evil would say =:-O

d
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Re: Diagnose the source of my intonation issues

Postby Parker Fly » Thu May 15, 2008 7:45 am

zenguitar wrote:Also, it only works for standard tuning. I can make other tunings worse

Andy :beamup:

You diplomatically pointed out the principles, I would simply have said it's bollocks, and that's borne by the fact that most people call it the Buzz Lightyear system on account of the fact that it's fiction.
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Re: Diagnose the source of my intonation issues

Postby zenguitar » Fri May 16, 2008 2:52 am

Damn!! Caught out by a simple typo!!! There go my latest plans for world domination again....

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