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Amp Synth? Synth Amp? Ever been done?

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Re: Amp Synth? Synth Amp? Ever been done?

Postby Guest » Mon May 28, 2018 6:36 pm

Did try Jam last year, my reasoning here was that I had to compromise my style and to much faffing about, I don’t want to do that, it’s only that special micro-timing I’m after, will give it a go again though…

Everyone here seems to think it’s ok, but I think I need better than ok to replicate that kinda timing, and collectively, if none of yous are aware of anything that can do that, there prob isn’t at the mo’ so I’m guessing a combination of technique/procedures.

Pretty sure I tried audio to midi once and it was rubbish and none of you lot are mentioning it… surely someone must’ve wanted to or at least did something similar.

I play a keyboard but nowt like a guitar, I just got it in me ‘ead that synth tones will sound amazing with that chugga chugga etc guitar timing, and to couple those tones wiv real geetar tones is even more wicked, maybe not won’t know ‘til I’ve given it a go.

Hmmm, I suppose it may be possible to cut a wav file, separate the ups and downs and generate a midi track or two from that? Then that way it wouldn’t be too troublesome for the conversion to midi, I’m assuming if you’ve separated the timing best you can, that the audio to midi would be able to handle that, especially wiv a tweak or two after… maybe I should become an acoustic singer songwriter, now that’s an easy life innit.
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Re: Amp Synth? Synth Amp? Ever been done?

Postby Alba » Mon May 28, 2018 8:27 pm

I bought a copy of Audio to Midi years ago - wasted my money but i suppose technology has to start somewhere.

Had you considered a midi guitar? There's the Yamaha offering. Not sure if they still make them but they come up on eBay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v-Bp6h-KgE

And the You Rock guitar reviewed in the mag https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/in ... ock-guitar
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Re: Amp Synth? Synth Amp? Ever been done?

Postby Alba » Mon May 28, 2018 8:27 pm

I bought a copy of Audio to Midi years ago - wasted my money but i suppose technology has to start somewhere.

Had you considered a midi guitar? There's the Yamaha offering. Not sure if they still make them but they come up on eBay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v-Bp6h-KgE

And the You Rock guitar reviewed in the mag https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/in ... ock-guitar
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Re: Amp Synth? Synth Amp? Ever been done?

Postby Wonks » Mon May 28, 2018 9:54 pm

I just acquired a YouRock guitar. And the YouRock website disappeared just after I bought it so I couldn't load the editor or check for firmware updates. Haven't played with it much but first impressions are no better than my guitar with a GK-2a pickup into a GR-20.
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Re: Amp Synth? Synth Amp? Ever been done?

Postby James Perrett » Mon May 28, 2018 10:47 pm

LdashD wrote:However, I also think a cleverer sod than me could also man-handle the data, and get it pucker, or at least as near as damn it? Hmmm, James Perret maybe? Not sure 'e's cleverer than me though, even so...

You called....?

I think you've got the clever guitar synth people thinking about it already - with synths I've always found that it helps to be working with something close to the final sound as you play as the sound will have a subtle effect on your playing. Never really done much with guitar synths though.
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Re: Amp Synth? Synth Amp? Ever been done?

Postby Guest » Tue May 29, 2018 9:01 am

I must emphasise not playing and not substituting one for t’other. Seems to me that the basic idea of guitar synths is to provide non-keyboard playing guitarists wiv a means of doing so.

I just want to generate MIDI from a wave, the starting point being, the wave file contains all the knowledge or perhaps ‘ingredients’ of the micro-timing…

One more time, def not playing, as I know that can’t faithfully reproduce that special timing.

In my ignorance and I will try this soon, I would suggest a plugin or external box of course, no facts here, but for argument’s sake, we’ve a 1 bar wav of a single guitar string being struck in 16’ths using trad micro-timed up/down strokes….

It’s a short riff, only eight notes, let’s say the MIDI has got 200 ticks (is that the right term?) and these ticks? Could be looked on as micro-beats?

So, I stick this wav in the plugin and it nabs my I bar riff and immediately glues an empty I bar after it, we now ‘ave two bars one being empty, it simultaneously stretches my eight 16ths I bar riff into its provided extra bar thus making two bars and the 16ths become 8ths... I think you can all work da rest out….

Er, just in case, point is, the gaps will be bigger, easier? for the plugin to chop that micro timing, then convert it to MIDI using 200 ticks, the stretch could also increase the ticks maybe? then un-stretch… und Bob’s yer Auntie & Fanny’s yer transgender Uncle.

Simple innit, when you don’t know ‘ow.


Hey James thanks for that excellent work lad, I was gonna send you a working model but it was 12 MB so I think I’ll do a private Soundcloud link soon as pos, but that way, one can’t use their download link I think, but I got a sneaky feeling you’ll be able to tap the signal somehow eh. Plus I can give you a bigger file…

Jus’ so you know, it’s all four bars, mine, then yours & mine, then yours and finally then both ours again plus the ethnic ‘guitr’, have a few queries about thinning out the geetar as it and the vox mingle, basically two very strong hooks I need them not to compete, me missus nagged me enough about the guitar to include it, not that I didn’t agree I feel and do still feel as they’re both very strong they kinda bump into each other, not something one would normally do… I’ll wait ‘til you’ve ‘eard it, as it is an aesthetic and tech combined issue…

Er sorry man, as we’re ‘ere, mine was two diff vox cut-ups I muted my weakest and just dumped yours on that, (as the EQ aesthetic ain’t gonna be that far away), it’s a harshish EQ and there’s a tiny phase where the miniscule bits of debris are, we need to ‘manage’ that your removal and my cutting are not ganging up, there is a tiddly issue there easily solved, but that phase, I think when all parts are in we could maybe mask/process/effect our vox…

Remember lad wot da public don’t know won’t ‘urt ‘em, they don’t ‘ear wot we do, no mistakes of course, but I don’t mind, like even, some rough edges etc…

I think I have da clever edge at da mo’ cos you missed an oppo to snip not remove a couple of those claps… but I suppose you wanted to keep the wav length intact, dang fool.

Many thanks man, at least me email’ll be brief now eh.

Hmm, then again, would/could you…

Later Jimi
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Re: Amp Synth? Synth Amp? Ever been done?

Postby BigRedX » Tue May 29, 2018 10:09 am

I've been playing around with guitars and synthesis since the late 70s when the first reasonably serious systems were released. I spent most of the 80s trying to make synths sound like guitars and then most of the 90s trying to make guitars sound like synths, and I've finally come to the conclusion that even now 40 years on from the first proper commercial guitar synth models if I want guitar sound I'll use a guitar and if I want synthesiser sounds I'll use a keyboard or sequencer driven synth.

For me the whole point of using a guitar to control a synth is that I can quickly and easily swap between the two sound sources or double them up as required, and so far there is still no adequate substitute (IMO) for a real guitar when it comes to producing guitar sounds.

Pitch to CV or MIDI is still a non-starter because it's not quick or accurate enough for fast attack sounds and it gets worse the lower the pitch of the string, and all the tricks available to get around these limitations reduce the controller's ability to be a proper guitar.

How do you get your synth sound source to understand, palm muting, pitched harmonics, ghost notes etc? These techniques are all second nature to a decent guitarist, but either incomprehensible to the synthesiser or produce no difference in tone from a standard plucked, fretted note.

Right now AFAIAC the best system out there is the Roland V-system because it uses signal process of the actual guitar sound rather than trying to convert the pitch of the guitar into something else.
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Re: Amp Synth? Synth Amp? Ever been done?

Postby blinddrew » Tue May 29, 2018 12:21 pm

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Re: Amp Synth? Synth Amp? Ever been done?

Postby Alba » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:23 pm

I was just looking at the Fishman Tripleplay and thought of this thread.
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