You are here

'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

For all things relating to guitars, basses, amps, pedals & accessories.

Re: 'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

Postby blinddrew » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:56 pm

Hmmm, might be some options with a bit of call and reply then?
What springs to mind to me, and bear in mind that I'm just as terrible a guitarist as I am a recorder/mixer/producer, was a shift between some gnarly/crunchy guitar in a fairly staccato way (maybe in the bridges), with some more sympathetic delay-based melodic bits in the verse as a counterpoint to the vocals.

But I'm flying a bit blind! ;)
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5125
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: 'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

Postby BigRedX » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:48 pm

Can you not just add some chordal movement with the guitar part or is that a complete "no no"?

Listening to the three clips you posted theres lots I stuff I could play over that, but it might be taking the music too far away from it's original intentions.
User avatar
BigRedX
Frequent Poster
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:00 am
RockinRollin' VampireMan

Re: 'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

Postby Wonks » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:48 pm

I'm thinking I'd try some jangly chorus + delay and then some distorted chords.
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 6106
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Now even grumpier than Ivan in his heyday.

Re: 'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

Postby The Bunk » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:54 pm


Wow. Just wow.
User avatar
The Bunk
Frequent Poster
Posts: 855
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:00 am
Location: SW London
2 answers; 799 questions and about 58 "Mornington Crescent" posts.

Re: 'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

Postby CS70 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:07 pm

jellyjim wrote:
CS70 wrote:Very tough to say anything without actually listening. Is it possible to hear the track, or part of it?

ok sure but just short and i'll remove them soon-ish as i don't have permission plus no guide vocal for same reason but the melody is pretty much chord tones and certainly within diatonic major scale (G)

loop 1 - verse/chorus

break - break

loop 2 - basic pattern with synth

Thanks! Well as soon as I heard the loop1 a melody came to mind and then it was 30secs to record it. The sound is totally random, just the patch of the 11r that was set when I turned it on (A1 Shuttle Home, never used it before and probably will never since, but kinda works).

I'll send u a dropbox link in PM... if I figure out how to send a PM :D
User avatar
CS70
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2857
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Oslo, Norway
Silver Spoon - Check out our latest video  and the FB page

Re: 'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

Postby jellyjim » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:24 pm

Thanks all for your help and interest, much appreciated, and Above-and-Beyond Award goes to CS70

I guess the nub of it is, it's challenging to come up with anything that STAYS interesting. I'd like to think that's because the underlying music doesn't change though it may simply be because I'm a lame arse guitarist. That's entirely possible too! :bouncy:

Either way we're recording it this Saturday so I'll let you know what I come up with
User avatar
jellyjim
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1408
Joined: Wed May 15, 2002 12:00 am
Location: uk
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Re: 'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

Postby Hewesy » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:55 am

As above I think I'd consider some MIDI sync'd FX if that's an option, can your keys player send out MIDI timecode to sync to?

Otherwise I'd also be interested to see how far you can stray from the beat. Some super clean, compressed angular lines could work rather than fighting the keys for the mid frequencies.

I suspect a mix of the two would be the solution, check out other players in similar bands to see how they deal with the same situation. Faithless, Sensor, Rudamental, Prodigy, Pendulum and others all favour a live band.

Any chance of posting some of your tracks up, if the rest of the band don't mind?

Hewesy
Hewesy
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:00 am

Re: 'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

Postby jellyjim » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:08 am

Hewesy wrote:As above I think I'd consider some MIDI sync'd FX if that's an option, can your keys player send out MIDI timecode to sync to?

My pedal board's quite old school. I think it needs an update for this band!

Otherwise I'd also be interested to see how far you can stray from the beat. Some super clean, compressed angular lines could work rather than fighting the keys for the mid frequencies.

Yes, that's a good shout. Don't compete, find space elsewhere

Any chance of posting some of your tracks up, if the rest of the band don't mind?

Sure. We have Soundcloud (not the first track, don't know what that's doing there). All tracks feature guitar where I DO seem to know what to do. It's just this one new track. It's got me all discombobulated for some reason

https://soundcloud.com/ja_sputnik
User avatar
jellyjim
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1408
Joined: Wed May 15, 2002 12:00 am
Location: uk
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Re: 'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

Postby BigRedX » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:52 am

Hewesy wrote:As above I think I'd consider some MIDI sync'd FX if that's an option, can your keys player send out MIDI timecode to sync to?

Otherwise I'd also be interested to see how far you can stray from the beat. Some super clean, compressed angular lines could work rather than fighting the keys for the mid frequencies.

I suspect a mix of the two would be the solution, check out other players in similar bands to see how they deal with the same situation. Faithless, Sensor, Rudamental, Prodigy, Pendulum and others all favour a live band.

Any chance of posting some of your tracks up, if the rest of the band don't mind?

Hewesy

Have a look at the Linn Adrenalinn.
User avatar
BigRedX
Frequent Poster
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:00 am
RockinRollin' VampireMan

Re: 'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

Postby Hewesy » Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:41 pm

Funnily enough it was the Linn I had in mind but I just couldn't conjure the name this am...!

Cheers!

You could use perhaps both boards, use an A/B or a LS2 type pedal to swap between your usual tone and the Linn/MIDI board so you can swap/merge as required.

Handy for stepping in/out depending on whether you are adding a pad/texture or looking to step out.

Plus you could leave the MIDI board with the keys player to save running MTC over the stage and let them rack it up for you too.

Hewesy
Hewesy
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:00 am

Re: 'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

Postby Hewesy » Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:42 pm

I'll check the link as I can mate, WiFi on the train today is even worse than usual...

Hewesy
Hewesy
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:00 am

Re: 'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

Postby Martin Walker » Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:22 pm

The Bunk wrote:

Wow. Just wow.

Now I've listened to jellyjim's audio snippets it seems that my above link is even closer in concept to yours, which could benefit from similar treatments. Should be some ideas there anyway!

By the way jellyjim, I particularly like what your guitar is doing on the Soundcloud rack 'I go' by the way. Very Devo! 8-)

https://soundcloud.com/ja_sputnik/i-go

I'd be inclined to go similarly jagged and choppy on this latest recording, with plenty of gated echo :thumbup:

Use the whammy bar with gusto too, assuming your guitar has one :ugeek:


Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 12749
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: 'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

Postby jellyjim » Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:57 pm

Martin Walker wrote:Now I've listened to jellyjim's audio snippets it seems that my above link is even closer in concept to yours, which could benefit from similar treatments. Should be some ideas there anyway!

By the way jellyjim, I particularly like what your guitar is doing on the Soundcloud rack 'I go' by the way. Very Devo! 8-)

Thank you kindly sir!

And yes, agree with above

Well I've just returned from GAK with a TC Electronic Aeon. An eBow by any other name.

I'll report back!
User avatar
jellyjim
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1408
Joined: Wed May 15, 2002 12:00 am
Location: uk
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Re: 'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

Postby Hewesy » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:18 pm

Oh that TC unit is cool, I've just found my original eBow though otherwise I'd be tempted.

Should be very useful. Don't forget the volume pedal.

Hewesy
Hewesy
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:00 am

Re: 'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

Postby BigRedX » Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:40 pm

jellyjim wrote:Well I've just returned from GAK with a TC Electronic Aeon. An eBow by any other name.

I'll report back!

Please let us know how you get on with it. My eBow seems to have gone missing, so I'm keen to replace it. The Aeon doesn't look as ergonomic and comfortable as the eBow, but it's considerably cheaper. Can it do the harmonic sustain like the latest version of the eBow?
User avatar
BigRedX
Frequent Poster
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:00 am
RockinRollin' VampireMan

Re: 'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

Postby jellyjim » Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:50 pm

BigRedX wrote:
jellyjim wrote:Well I've just returned from GAK with a TC Electronic Aeon. An eBow by any other name.

I'll report back!

Please let us know how you get on with it. My eBow seems to have gone missing, so I'm keen to replace it. The Aeon doesn't look as ergonomic and comfortable as the eBow, but it's considerably cheaper. Can it do the harmonic sustain like the latest version of the eBow?

Well I'm quite disappointed by it so far.

For starters a spring fell out of it! It keeps the battery tight. There's another one but clearly they're not terribly secure.

How does the eBow work?

I assumed proximity to string would set the 'attack'. Even practically on top of the string, the Aeon still takes a few seconds to bring the string up to sufficient excitation and fingering a new fret, unless you hammer on or pull off, means you have to repeat the attack phase. My p/ups are quite quiet though, maybe that's it. Single coils on a vintage Fender MusicMaster II (pre-CBS, all original parts, beautifully weathered, but that's another story!)

I also thought you'd be able to 'strum' with it. You can't. It has three grooves in its base. One each for adjacent strings and a middle one for the string being excited. You can't waft the device across the strings.

Is the eBow the same?
User avatar
jellyjim
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1408
Joined: Wed May 15, 2002 12:00 am
Location: uk
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Re: 'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

Postby BigRedX » Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:08 pm

Unfortunately the eBow is very similar in operation.

You do have to get the string vibrating before the eBow will take over, although holding it directly over the neck pickup will generally work. The guitars I use it with both have quite "hot" pickups (Gus G1 and a Fretking Esprit V with SD mini humbuckers) which definitely helps. Try raising the neck pickup and use this just to "drive" the string with the Aeon and use the bridge pickup for the output.

Once the string is vibrating you need to play "legato" style to keep the sustain going unless you hammer on each note.

Maybe you would be better off with a Gizmotron?
User avatar
BigRedX
Frequent Poster
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:00 am
RockinRollin' VampireMan

Re: 'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:57 pm

EBow does require something to start the note, hammering on works just fine. The tone changes dramatically when you hold it over a pickup (so it's magnetic feedback feeds directly into the pickup) and you can get a 'spiccato' effect by sort of hammering on with the EBow over a pickup.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7102
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: 'Textural' guitar effects to add interest where there is no harmonic movement

Postby Hewesy » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:15 pm

A Sustainer pickup would be the ultimate as I understand it, but possibly a bit of a retrofit too far for the Fender.

I've had some success using a compressor cranked right up to create pseudo feedback, the old VS Route66 comp was great for that. To the point I almost wired a momentary switch to it so I could add at will (sadly Will objected so I sold it).

Might be enough to help get things singing?

Hewesy
Hewesy
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:00 am

Previous

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Wonks