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Wireless system

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Wireless system

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:13 pm
by mick.n
In the market for a new guitar wireless system.

Wondered if anyone here has tried one of these? Seem to have a lot of positive reviews.

https://www.smoothhound-innovations.com/

Re: Wireless system

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:24 pm
by Wonks
Never tied it, but looking at the spec, the standard 8ms latency is on the high side to me. the minimum 5ms may not always be available depending on the level of wi-fi traffic around.

It may be something you can live with, but lower is always better, especially if you ever use a digital mixer and have the guitar the put through monitors (and worse if you ever use a digital IEM system)

For a similar price, Andertons have this Line 6 unit with less that 1.5ms latency. https://www.andertons.co.uk/offers/epic ... ess-system

I'd be quite interested in the Smooth Hound system myself as I'd want more than one transmitter and they seem like they'd be easier to get hold of, but I'd be a bit wary of the latency.

My old wireless system was an AKG guitar bug channel 70 job with no latency.

Re: Wireless system

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:03 pm
by DGL.
The other weird thing about it is that it has a balanced output, useful if going straight to a desk but most guitarists don't do that and I would guess 99% of all guitar amps/effects have unbalanced inputs.
Plus for products like this I think that if it is so good why hasn't a major manufacturer done this before?

Re: Wireless system

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:24 am
by shufflebeat
Wonks wrote:Never tied it, but looking at the spec, the standard 8ms latency is on the high side to me. the minimum 5ms may not always be available depending on the level of wi-fi traffic around.

It may be something you can live with, but lower is always better, especially if you ever use a digital mixer and have the guitar the put through monitors (and worse if you ever use a digital IEM system)

For a similar price, Andertons have this Line 6 unit with less that 1.5ms latency. https://www.andertons.co.uk/offers/epic ... ess-system

I'd be quite interested in the Smooth Hound system myself as I'd want more than one transmitter and they seem like they'd be easier to get hold of, but I'd be a bit wary of the latency.

My old wireless system was an AKG guitar bug channel 70 job with no latency.

For the record, I bought one of those Line 6 boxes a couple of months ago and it's been great. The receiver is an odd size/shape but my FX box is an adapted "briefcase" style flight case and it fits perfectly.

No dropouts despite some reports online, scan function is a bit finicky, maybe that accounts for some folk having problems.

Re: Wireless system

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:55 am
by BigRedX
The general consensus over on BassChat where the Smooth Hound unit has quite a lot of fans, is that it is great so long as you don't have any other digital devices in your signal chain (which includes the PA if you are going through it) as the latency is on the high side.

Re: Wireless system

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:49 am
by Sam Spoons
8ms latency is very high, I did an experiment and concluded that with IEM's I couldn't tolerate more than 6ms. Probably less critical if it's linking an instrument to an amp, 8ms is equivalent to standing an extra 9' from the amp.

Re: Wireless system

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:35 pm
by BigRedX
I think the latency problem is far more obvious for those on in-ears because there is no obvious visual clue for the distance of the sound source.

So if you stand an extra 9 feet away from your amp you can see it and your brain will expect a degree of delay between you playing a note and hearing it depending where you are stood in relation to the speakers. When you are on in-ears that visual clue is missing and therefore the brain will expect the sound to be instantaneous (after all the "speakers" are right next to your ear drums) and when there is a degree of delay it is more noticeable.

Re: Wireless system

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:27 pm
by Sam Spoons
It's particularly bad when singing 'cos of occlusion. Not sure if it would be the same playing an electric guitar, though the extra 8ms from the guitar to the amp if backline is involved might be disconcerting.

Re: Wireless system

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:57 pm
by mick.n
Thanks for the replies,much appreciated.
Hmm, i am drawn to the Line 6 Relay G75 mentioned above. Though having read quite a few reviews, it seems to suffer from drop-outs.

It will be connected from guitar to pedalboard to marshall combo amp.......then di-ed to FOH desk The only other wireless thing we use is a radio mic.

Re: Wireless system

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:06 pm
by Wonks
Any wireless system can suffer from drop-outs. The more you pay for a system, the less likely they are, but any system will suffer drop-outs if you get too far away or you gt a metal column or concrete beam in the way between you and the receiver. And the 2.4GHz wi-fi band can easily get pretty filled with a lot of mobile phones and tablets in the audience. Less of an issue if a phone needs to resend a packet, but more of one if it's a break in the guitar transmission and the transmitter + receiver then take a few more ms to re-establish contact

Apart from buying a radio system that works in the licensed band and you having to keep getting licenses, the alternatives are really just the 2.4GHz band stuff, or a conventional lead (by far the best method, if a bit physically constraining).

Re: Wireless system

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:31 pm
by Music Wolf
Wonks wrote: (by far the best method, because it's physically constraining).

FTFY

Like many a weekendwarrior I play on 'stages' so small that we have to take it in turns to breath out. On the rare occasion that we do get a sound check then a wireless link does allow one of us to go out front to listen - then we put the wireless kit away.

This avoids the temptation for any of the band to wander out into the audience and act like a complete and utter numpty.

I once watched a middle aged covers band where the singer, the bass player and one of the guitarists, all of whom had wireless, thought that it would look cool (is cool still a thing?) to all go out into the audience at the same point (clearly planned, possibly rehearsed). Anyway, it was about the most buttock clenchingly embarrassing thing that I have ever witnessed.

If you're going to use wireless this way then I suggest that you go the whole hog and wear leather pants (which look really good with your gut hanging over your belt).

Re: Wireless system

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:32 pm
by BigRedX
mick.n wrote:Thanks for the replies,much appreciated.
Hmm, i am drawn to the Line 6 Relay G75 mentioned above. Though having read quite a few reviews, it seems to suffer from drop-outs.

It will be connected from guitar to pedalboard to marshall combo amp.......then di-ed to FOH desk The only other wireless thing we use is a radio mic.

The problem with latency and digital wireless is not the digital wireless on its own but the cumulative effect of all the digital devices in the signal path.

What other digital devices do you have on your pedal board? Delay? Multi-effects? Is your PA desk digital? All of those AD/DA conversions eventually add up while no one device adds any noticeable latency all of the put together may well do.

As far as drop outs go, with budget digital wireless on the 2.4GHz band is that you are competing with every wireless device in the venue (i.e. every audience member's mobile phone).

Re: Wireless system

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:53 pm
by scw
I opted for this Sure system after much deliberation:

https://www.shure.co.uk/products/wirele ... -pedal-set

I'm delighted with it. The thing that swung it for me was build quality and reliability. The battery life is superb and in an emergency you can charge the battery very quickly on route to a gig in the car or between sets using a usb cable!

Stewart

Re: Wireless system

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:32 am
by Wonks
FYI, the Shure system has between 4ms and 7.3ms latency.

Re: Wireless system

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:02 pm
by scw
Wonks wrote:FYI, the Shure system has between 4ms and 7.3ms latency.

Cheers Wonks :thumbup: .

Its not an issue at all on a small stage without in ears. I cant comment on the impact of that using IEM.

Re: Wireless system

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:31 pm
by Wonks
No it should be fine in that context - and it obviously is for you.

Re: Wireless system

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:55 pm
by mick.n
[quote="Music Wolf

If you're going to use wireless this way then I suggest that you go the whole hog and wear leather pants (which look really good with your gut hanging over your belt).[/quote]

:bouncy: :D Haha, fortunately the expanding gut syndrome hasn't bestowed itself on myself & the rest of the band (thus far).

My rational for a wireless system is that I do a lot of switching between guitar & keyboards. Good chance of tripping over a guitar lead. Also, less chance of a 240 volt thrill if the venue has dodgy electrics.

I decided to go for the Line 6 system that Wonks mentioned. Thanks again for all the replies & info. :thumbup:

Re: Wireless system

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:25 pm
by ore_terra
I've owned that line6's little brother (G30) for a couple of years now. the only dropout I've had was due to the cable I was using.

I'm also one of those who likes to wander out into the audience :wave: and the 1st thing I do during sound/line check is to see how far I can move from the receptor (to avoid dropouts)

latency wise, I don't know the msecs but I can say that on IEM's I could play perfectly.

Re: Wireless system

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:54 am
by BigRedX
Overall the Line6 wireless units are a good choice. However be aware that on some models at the cheaper end of the range there have been problems with the battery door on the transmitter unit. Check the reviews before you make a choice.

Re: Wireless system

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:28 am
by ore_terra
BigRedX wrote:Overall the Line6 wireless units are a good choice. However be aware that on some models at the cheaper end of the range there have been problems with the battery door on the transmitter unit. Check the reviews before you make a choice.
yes, G30 like mine show that issue commonly (not to me, fortunately). people is moving to the G10 instead that does not need a battery.