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Bass sound dilemma

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Re: Bass sound dilemma

PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:01 pm
by The Red Bladder
Sam Inglis wrote:A four-inch ribbon?!
For years I was dissatisfied with the sound I got from ANY mic for a bass fiddle or double-bass if you prefer. The instrument could make a wonderful sound, but the recording never truly reflected the deep fundamental sound you get when standing next to the thing. The closest I got was with an old RCA ribbon, but it was not mine and I had to give it back.

Frustrated, I built two using the usual Lundahl transformer and high-powered magnets ("Of course I know what a magnet is Olly. It's a little animal that eats cheese.") The result is superb. The best mics for bass that I know or have ever used!

Dr Huge Longjohns wrote:
If they heave something from the Far East into view
So you'd kick Nathan East out of the studio with his Yamahas then? Or Carol Kaye with her Ibanez? Seems a tad harsh!
Star performers do not use shop-bought off-the-shelf equipment. It is nearly always custom made by specialist companies and badged.

I once spent five days recording a famous drummer who was sponsored by Ludwig and Zildjian and on the set-up day, a van arrived with a crate filled with a complete kit that had just been made for that recording in Ludwig's specialised workshop. Every inch of that kit and those cymbals was beautiful and perfectly finished!

The same applies to guitars, but most keyboard players seem to have to get their own stuff! Go figure!

Over and above that - I NEVER comment on what musicians bring into the studio. If they want to use X, X it is! My job is to reproduce the exact sound they are creating in the room. If someone wants to play a Chinese bass through a digital effects rack and over a solid-state amp, then I must assume that is the (nasty) sound they really want.

If asked for my opinion (quite another thing!) I MIGHT suggest a proper amp and analogue effects if any at all.

BigRedX wrote:IME A good engineer is able to get a bass sound that suits the band and their style of music whatever instrument they happen to be using.
That's like saying "No matter how thin and weedy a singer may sound, a good engineer should record a full-bodied sound."

I'm not there to get some magic sound by interfering with what you are doing. Getting a specific sound out of your instrument is your job!

Re: Bass sound dilemma

PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:55 pm
by Sam Inglis
I once got suckered into bidding in an online auction for what I thought was a BBC Marconi Type A ribbon mic. I was ecstatic when I won it for about £150.

When it turned up it wasn't a Type A at all, and had clearly never been near the BBC. It actually appeared to have been entirely home-made by some enthusiastic but slightly clueless individual. There were many unusual things about it, of which the most unusual was its sheer size. When we talk about 'long ribbon' mics we usually mean that the ribbon element is two inches long. In this mic it was more than six inches long! The mic itself was more than a foot tall.

It passed signal, but only barely. I sent it to Stewart at Xaudia and he sadly informed me that the design was so weird it could never possibly work, so I put it on eBay as an interesting novelty and Edwyn Collins bought it.

Re: Bass sound dilemma

PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:31 pm
by Martin Walker
The Elf wrote:
"My heart sinks a little if they pull out a Gibson and sinks a lot if it is a Rickenbacker"
:wtf: :protest:
https://youtu.be/_w8SY_9yO8k

Now that's luvverly bass playing by Nick Beggs 8-) :clap:

I'd have preferred a tad more bottom end, but hey I'm not complaining ;)


Martin

Re: Bass sound dilemma

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:14 am
by Sam Inglis
Nice playing but I'm with RB on the sound there. Why would you ever want a bass guitar to go 'clank'?

Re: Bass sound dilemma

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:23 am
by The Elf
Sam Inglis wrote:Nice playing but I'm with RB on the sound there. Why would you ever want a bass guitar to go 'clank'?
Errr... Did you listen to that example I posted? How could anyone doubt that's a fantastic bass sound? It's all in the fingers!

Re: Bass sound dilemma

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:17 pm
by Wonks
And it's a Warwick bass, so Bladder would be happy.

Re: Bass sound dilemma

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:04 pm
by Sam Inglis
The Elf wrote:Errr... Did you listen to that example I posted? How could anyone doubt that's a fantastic bass sound? It's all in the fingers!

It's barely a bass sound at all!

The playing is great but the sound is thin and clanky.

Re: Bass sound dilemma

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:26 pm
by The Elf
Sam Inglis wrote:
The Elf wrote:Errr... Did you listen to that example I posted? How could anyone doubt that's a fantastic bass sound? It's all in the fingers!

It's barely a bass sound at all!

The playing is great but the sound is thin and clanky.
We are listening to two completely different songs!!! :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :lol:

Re: Bass sound dilemma

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:35 pm
by BigRedX
TBH I have yet to come across any bass that wan't capable of producing a perfectly good bass guitar sound in the hands of a half-way competent player, and recorded by a decent engineer.

To sort of get back to the OP, what I find with musicians who are chasing a particular sound from a recording (for any instrument) is that they rarely consider the overall musical context. What makes instruments in songs sound great is not the sound of the instrument on its own but how it works with all the others in the arrangement and production. Taken out of context and while you might have nailed the sound exactly it no longer sounds right because it doesn't have the correct sonic space to sit in any more.

I discovered this in my synth playing days back in the 80s when I would hear a fantastic sound on a new record that I wanted to emulate, but by the time I'd made it work for my own music it had undergone so many changes, it bore little resemblance to what had inspired me in the first place.

Re: Bass sound dilemma

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:29 pm
by Music Wolf
I'm with The Elf with regard to that bass sound - absolutely gorgeous. I also like basses that go thump, but it's all about context and for that track / playing style the sound fits.

With regard to Rickenbackers I sorely miss my old 4001 (which I sold 35 years ago). I lust after a 4003 but, as I've now moved on to 6 string duties, I'll have to make do with my Ibanez and Tokais. I did purchase the Scarabee Rick VST which I use when I'm arranging stuff for the covers band and the sound is amazing.

Re: Bass sound dilemma

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:23 pm
by IvanSC
In other words, it ALL hinges on how good the player is to start with.
My first bass was a 1962 Precision that I bought used in 1963. Next one was a 1972 Rickenbacker 4001 stereo. Following on from that I have been through a ton of weird & wonderful basses. According to friends relatives & engineers I sound pretty much the same on all of them.

Don`t care who you are, if you are a real bass player, your playing style should dictate the overall sound more than anything else. Nowadays I go straight into my computer via a focusrite Octopre LE then either BOD, SSL channel strip or Bass Professor as a plugin. They all work great. Current live rig is a pair of 10" Celestion neos powered by a markbass III but I have also had to use a nasty little Harley Benton a Hartke combo & a bunch of other stuff. It all works.

Re: Bass sound dilemma

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:49 pm
by adrian_k
I'm glad the Octopre is still working - assume that's the one you got off eBay a few years ago ? :bouncy: