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To Treble Bleed Or Not?

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To Treble Bleed Or Not?

Postby Jay Menon » Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:04 pm

I recorded four equal volume clips on my Strat

- Mojo Alnico 5-2 pickups
- No treble bleed

Two clips each on neck and bridge pickups

Neck 1
Neck 2
Bridge 1
Bridge 2

- Volume at 7 and 10 (input sensitivity adjusted accordingly)
- Tone controls at 10

Identify please - which one is volume at 7 and which one is volume at 10

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on any tonal differences.

https://soundcloud.com/jaymenon/strat-no-treble-bleed
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Re: To Treble Bleed Or Not?

Postby Wonks » Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:23 pm

The first neck and the first bridge sample appear to be slightly brighter than the second. Less difference with the neck when playing, but the fade-out seemed slightly less bright on the second sample. The bridge one had a greater difference, but it's difficult to tell if it was because the first had less bass and mids or the second had less treble.

So I'd expect the first of each to be on 10 and the second on 7.
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Re: To Treble Bleed Or Not?

Postby Music Wolf » Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:08 pm

I'm pretty much with Wonks. I'm not hearing too much difference between the necks (1 & 2), 1 is slightly brighter. Bridge is far more pronounced with 3 sound brighter than 4.
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Re: To Treble Bleed Or Not?

Postby Jay Menon » Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:11 pm

Thanks guys for your replies, and for having the courage to express an opinion and commit yourselves - very much appreciated.

Should I wait until a few more people express an opinion before revealing the identity of each clip?

In the meantime do you think the differences were subtle or very obvious?
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Re: To Treble Bleed Or Not?

Postby Wonks » Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:51 pm

Subtle on the neck, a bit more obvious on the bridge.

With a log pot, the 5 position should be 6dB down on the 10 position, so 7 is probably only 3dB(ish) down, so not a huge reduction in the output signal. But if you don't normally turn your volume down to less than 7 when playing, then you only need what's relevant for that.

Of course, a drop in volume will probably naturally result in a perceived slightly less bright, less bassy sound by the ear, plus any low level harmonics generated by the amp's preamp will be reduced with a lower input signal level, again making the sound less bright.

I've started fitting treble bleeds on my single coil guitars. I use a C+R in series (the 'Kinman' style) rather than parallel, and it seems to work well.
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Re: To Treble Bleed Or Not?

Postby Jay Menon » Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:15 pm

You gentlemen got it right -I’m really impressed...!

Clips one and three have the volume control at 10.

Clips two and four have the volume control at 7.

I was however very struck by how subtle the differences are when the volumes (input gain on my amp) are equalised.

So when turning the volume down on my Strat, the associated perceived loss of treble is perhaps due to the reduced loudness itself - and might therefore to some degree be a psychoacoustic phenomenon.

And that means that treble pass circuits compensate for this psychoacoustic phenomenon, rather than any really significant loss of treble...
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Re: To Treble Bleed Or Not?

Postby Wonks » Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:22 pm

You could try the same thing with it set to 5 and see if that is more pronounced.

Was this straight in to an amp sim or a recording from an amp? The amp settings may make a difference as well to the result, especially in terms of input gain and master volume (where applicable).
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