You are here

Guitar based bands are boring.

For all things relating to guitars, basses, amps, pedals & accessories.

Re: Guitar based bands are boring.

Postby Sam Spoons » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:51 pm

It's a broad church, I too appreciate ABBA (well, at least now I've 'grown up'... sort of...). I love Prog and Jazz, complex and clever excites me but, like you, I don't enjoy 'free jazz' or atonal stuff.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 12799
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Guitar based bands are boring.

Postby Dynamic Mike » Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:47 am

MOF wrote:The only solo I can think of that almost disproves the short is sweet rule is Hotel California.

I'd add the outro's to Goodbye to Love & Baker Street. Both songs would be less without them.

For me guitars also have one huge advantage over synths as rhythm instruments. Upstrokes.
Dynamic Mike
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3384
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:00 am
'Cause the law don't change another's mind

Re: Guitar based bands are boring.

Postby Arpangel » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:23 am

MOF wrote:I have a very wide choice of music from the bubblegum pop to rock, synth and classical. I loved ABBA (but not Waterloo) as a teenager and never minded admitting it and I've grown into some music over the years such as Dylan and Van Morrison, but it's the progressive rock, modern jazz and classical (the dissonant stuff and melody free tracks) that leaves me cold.
Not all good tunes can be whistled I agree. I still would rather listen to the uncool stuff than Hendrix though. :D

Our taste is our taste, and it ain’t gonna change, so let’s get that straight.
I can remember when I was about 17, a friend played me a few Jazz albums, inc Miles Davis, and then he played me Berlin by Lou Reed, then The Late Quartets by Beethoven, I thought it was all complete, and utter atonal crap. Now, I love it all to death, and instead of it sounding atonal, it sounds "really normal" completely straight.
I love all "sound" it’s all part of the sound world, there is no music I don’t like, it’s all a source of potential ideas, and inspiration, we may not exactly "prefer" something, but that doesn’t stop me from taking ideas from it.
I got dragged into the world of free-improvisation about 30 years ago, and it was like taking acid, I can never,ever hear music in the same way as I did before, it’s all just sound, and a matter of context.
If I had shut this out, and denied myself this experience, I’d would have missed so much, and so much amazing music would have passed me by unnoticed.
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 4293
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Guitar based bands are boring.

Postby shufflebeat » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:48 am

My tastes have changed as my expectation of what music is for has changed. When I was feeling the need to visualise and express confusion I found hard, homemade music represented best what was on my mind. Eventually I too rediscovered Abba when I developed a taste for harmonic cake.

As a musician I've usually fallen into projects which have obliged me to explore new perspectives and my emotional and cognitive scaffolding have been dragged along by the experience. Some folks, often more technically engaged in the process or more formally trained as musicians (not all by any means) seem to bypass any personal commitment to or learning from the music apart from in the moment. I'm not sure how, or if, to understand that.
shufflebeat
Jedi Poster
Posts: 4770
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:00 am
Location: Manchester, UK
"Dancing Queen - feel the heat from the tangerine, ooh yeah!"

Do yourself a favour, wear earplugs at gigs.

Re: Guitar based bands are boring.

Postby S2 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:59 am

Dynamic Mike wrote:
MOF wrote:The only solo I can think of that almost disproves the short is sweet rule is Hotel California.

I'd add the outro's to Goodbye to Love & Baker Street. Both songs would be less without them.

For me guitars also have one huge advantage over synths as rhythm instruments. Upstrokes.

I still have a huge soft spot for Freebird.

Personally I find synth music really boring. The trouble with an infinite pallette of sounds is that there seems too much choice. With constraints that you get with guitars, maybe people become more creative?
User avatar
S2
Frequent Poster
Posts: 602
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Surrey

Re: Guitar based bands are boring.

Postby Sam Spoons » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:46 pm

MOF wrote:The only solo I can think of that almost disproves the short is sweet rule is Hotel California.

Just thinking about this and I've concluded that I hold an almost totally opposite view. I love Gypsy Jazz which is usually about 95% solo and 5% melody. I also love these guys who have a similar ratio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Moz3P2Z1gvw

And this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YLFnF_wrfg&t=267s
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 12799
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Guitar based bands are boring.

Postby ManFromGlass » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:22 pm

Jazz is a whole other planet. I don’t know how many Miles Davis solos I can sing along with. This is one of many examples in jazz. Any good solo resonates in my brain somehow. I just flashed on the fact that I could probably sing the entire Zappa guitar solo from Inca Roads.
User avatar
ManFromGlass
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:00 am
Location: In the woods in Canada

Re: Guitar based bands are boring.

Postby MOF » Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:52 pm

Personally I find synth music really boring
JM Jarre’s Oxygene and Equinox albums I loved immediately, still do. Kraftwerk took many years to grow on me, with the exception of Neon Lights and The Model. Switched on Bach I appreciated but it somehow always sounded cold and clinical to me.
I love Abba’s The Day before you came, mostly synths and a drum machine I would say. It’s always about the song, use real instruments or synths or both, whatever works best.
MOF
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1033
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:00 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Guitar based bands are boring.

Postby Arpangel » Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:58 pm

shufflebeat wrote:formally trained as musicians (not all by any means) seem to bypass any personal commitment to or learning from the music apart from in the moment. I'm not sure how, or if, to understand that.

I'm not sure, I find classically trained musicians ( I am one, but I dropped out) very much ingrained in a certain way of thinking, and a lot find it very difficult to improvise, and the opposite to what you said, they can’t play in the moment, or respond, to the moment.
Not all are like this though, I had people in my improv band that had day jobs as session players, and they had no trouble crossing over, they found much needed freedom in what we were doing.
I think we should listen to anything, Abba, Peter Brotzmann, Miles Davis, Grime, Metal, Classical, EDM, everything. And if we are players, play everything too, it will only broaden our minds, and give us more chops too, you can never, ever, have too much technique, it’s my big regret, not putting in enough practice.
Thankfully it’s not too much of a problem, but if I had my life over again, I’d be practicing every waking hour.
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 4293
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Guitar based bands are boring.

Postby ManFromGlass » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:55 pm

and there is one of the weaknesses with our current biology. We should be able to play something once and it is ingrained in the mental memory and muscle memory. I hate practicing - I want to play. 10,000 hours? Screw that, life is too short and there is so much to learn
User avatar
ManFromGlass
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:00 am
Location: In the woods in Canada

Re: Guitar based bands are boring.

Postby Martin Walker » Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:15 pm

Arpangel wrote:I can remember when I was about 17, a friend played me a few Jazz albums, inc Miles Davis, and then he played me Berlin by Lou Reed, then The Late Quartets by Beethoven, I thought it was all complete, and utter atonal crap. Now, I love it all to death, and instead of it sounding atonal, it sounds "really normal" completely straight.
I love all "sound" it’s all part of the sound world, there is no music I don’t like, it’s all a source of potential ideas, and inspiration, we may not exactly "prefer" something, but that doesn’t stop me from taking ideas from it.
I got dragged into the world of free-improvisation about 30 years ago, and it was like taking acid, I can never,ever hear music in the same way as I did before, it’s all just sound, and a matter of context.
If I had shut this out, and denied myself this experience, I’d would have missed so much, and so much amazing music would have passed me by unnoticed.

I love this description Tony!

I remember reading a rather sad description of many people who get 'stuck' in their musical spectrum by the age of 30, which is apparently why so many folk have music collections that seem preserved in amber from decades before.

Thankfully, like you, I've always kept on listening to new musicians, new genres, and tried creating some of it myself. Sometimes it's been work-oriented, when for instance I've needed to study a new genre to participate in creating sounds in that style for sound libraries, but far from being a chore, this has usually led me to appreciate music in this new genre and end up buying yet more albums from artists I've never heard of before.

Most people know that I love Bandcamp, and why (hint: https://www.soundonsound.com/people/why-love-bandcamp ), but over the last few years I've bought around 400 albums and EPs from Bandcamp artists, and am constantly pushing at my listening skills with everything from rigidly composed works to totally abstract improvisations.

As many others have said in the past, music is either good or bad, and even that distinction is hugely argued, as people's ears continue to develop in unexpected ways. Even in the last couple of months I've listened to stuff that I totally didn't 'get', only to find at some later point that it suddenly 'made sense' and I end up buying yet another album that gets played and played.

Music is a journey!


Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 15911
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: Guitar based bands are boring.

Postby ManFromGlass » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:41 pm

Yaa! Martin! :thumbup:
I remember not being a fan of some of the “denser” Phillip Glass pieces. Then I saw him interviewed on TV and playing excerpts on piano by himself. Suddenly his phrasing and approach made something click. His humanity came through in such a wonderful way. I was ready at that point in time for that life lesson.

Perhaps all songs/compositions carry lessons but we are not always ready for those cool lessons on first listening. Free improv for me always has that 50/50 chance of being awesome or crap and I find that exciting. To get a few minutes/seconds whatever of musical bliss is sometimes worth the pain of getting there! :smirk:
User avatar
ManFromGlass
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:00 am
Location: In the woods in Canada

Re: Guitar based bands are boring.

Postby N i g e l » Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:05 am

MOF wrote: I loved ABBA (but not Waterloo) as a teenager and never minded admitting it

I dont listen to Waterloo now but at the time it was a rock 'n roll outrage, a travisty that had no place on Eurovision !

It did put the band on the map and helped them become big in Australia & build the renowned POLAR studio. I think Led Zep recorded their best synth album there... ;)

Also Aus:

Guitar solo on Natalie Imbruglia's "TORN" ? Im guessing they weren't getting paid by the note !
;)
N i g e l
Frequent Poster
Posts: 844
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:40 pm
Location: UK

Re: Guitar based bands are boring.

Postby MOF » Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:05 pm

Free improv for me always has that 50/50 chance of being awesome or crap and I find that exciting. To get a few minutes/seconds whatever of musical bliss is sometimes worth the pain of getting there! :smirk:
Quite, and that’s why it should be at the writing stage, not inflicted on paying customers. ;)
MOF
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1033
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:00 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Guitar based bands are boring.

Postby Arpangel » Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:36 pm

MOF wrote:
Free improv for me always has that 50/50 chance of being awesome or crap and I find that exciting. To get a few minutes/seconds whatever of musical bliss is sometimes worth the pain of getting there! :smirk:
Quite, and that’s why it should be at the writing stage, not inflicted on paying customers. ;)

Can you please get this correct, wer'e talking about a paying "customer''' not "customers"
:D
Free improv and writing also don't go together, if it works, it's a moment in time, gone forgotten, time to try and uncover more hidden gems, I don't want to dig up the dead.
I'm not saying all this from a narrow minded free improv is all I like type of perspective, I like it all, as I said.
Martin, my music collection is all from the past, I don't buy music anymore, maybe very occasionally but thats it. The last CD I bought? I Love My Organ by Tom Recchion.
I discover most of the music I listen to via BBC R6, or R3, my calendar is scrawled with names, which I then follow up.
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 4293
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

PreviousNext