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Re: Marshalls...

Postby ore_terra » Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:14 pm

ef37a wrote:But, think on? The 'classic' OD sound is a Vox AC30 in full chat but Strweth! What decibel level!

you have to try this new generation of reactive load power attenuators... it's been a game changer for me (I sold most of my OD pedals :lol: :lol: )
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Re: Marshalls...

Postby Hewesy » Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:18 am

Alanqa wrote:I just bought the Marshall Origin 50head and 2x12 vertical cab.

I too felt I needed some Marshall in my life. My previous amps have been: Fender Horror deluxe iii, Fender Bassbreaker 18/30 and Fender Bassbreaker 007 head and 1x12 cab.

The Origin comes with footswitch for gain boost/effects loop. No reverb (but you do get the effects loop). Gain with pull out boost (or just use the footswitch). Tilt (changes the input from muddy to clear - I think this is to replace the 4input plexi design where people would bridge the bright and normal inputs. The tilt control let's you vary this.
Then the usual treble middle bass and volume and presence. Finally there is a power attenuator switch that goes from 1/2 a watt (louder than you'd think) to 10 watts (loud enough to rehearse with) to 50 watts aka Arrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhh!

Soundwise I largely play Gretsch guitars though occasionally pick up the PRS SE. Gretsch Filtertrons have the clarity of strat pickups and the warmth of a Les Paul combined with a sweet woody hollowness you get from a 335. Filtertrons are not weak pickups and I can get serious ACDC out of the Marshall just by cranking the controls. (Usually 1/2 watt is loud enough for me). Without a boost or drive pedal Malcolm Young or Rolling Stones crunch is as heavy as this amp will go. But that is not the whole story.

Because the amps break up is much more subtle and paced than most 'drive channels' on modern amps it makes it an amazing pedal platform. With the gain backed off to 12 o'clock and the power setting on middle or high the valves are barely ticking over and the tone is warm clear and perfect for any clean playing. Again with the Falcon I can go to Shadows like clarity and twang, sweet funk, sharp reggae, mellow jazz. It really is an amp for all seasons.

Anybody want to buy a Fender Bassbreaker 007 head and cab?

That's the review I was hoping for! I'm looking at the Origin 20H and would run through my 1x12 with a Greenback Celestion via a Marshall SE100.

I'm slowly trying to edge away from drive pedals (I can't explain why really!) save a mini TC Spark Boost for extra nudge. But ACDC type crunch is as much as I want anyway.

The verb is a bit of an issue but then I'm spoiled with the Laney having a genuine spring verb - to get that in a plexi type amp seems you need to step up a few price levels. Nothing wrong with digital at all but if its built in I can't see why you would sneak a little spring Accutronics in there.

The Bassbreaker is an EL84 amp, HotRod I think 6L6? So interesting the Origin is that different.

Thanks!

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Re: Marshalls...

Postby Hewesy » Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:19 am

ef37a wrote:" I couldn't see how a valve could roll of treble...."

Ah well now, you see a valve is a 'resistor', the 12 AX7 'looks like' about 60k Ohms and so any capacitors connected with it will form a filter circuit.
The 12AT7 is lower, around 22k iirc and so will change the frequency of those filters but as mentioned, the bias will not be right for an AT7 and so it will probably distort at a lower drive level than the AX7.

When it comes to 'improved' or boutique valves of the same type, then I, as a technician have a problem. Valves are incredibly precisely engineered structures the size and spacing of the electrodes is critical if one is to meet its specification, that is the published papaer parameters. For a circuit to work as designer those parameters must be spot on. Things like the resistance ^ and 'Amplification Factor' or 'mu' (100 for the 12AX7 but you don't get all of that) HAVE to be as published or the valve won't work as required.

Dave.

Ahh that explains it, funnily enough I've always presumed the valve would offer some resistance to the circuit but stopped short of understanding it would therefore be a resistor! D'oh...


Cheers Dave,

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Re: Marshalls...

Postby Argiletonne » Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:10 am

I prefer Laney.
or actually HiWatt,
but they don't sell those in USA.
HiWatt is better than Marshall.
The new Laney's look tight.
Why not get over the past and move on into the future,.
Lots of good brands out there.
Morgan, beautiful.
Friedman, delicious.
You want a wha?
A Marsha marsha marsha.
My favorite is Matchless, pure beauty by design.
You gotta be joking,
you've never heard of Reinhold Bogner.
What are you a caveman.
Superstars of the past played more HiWatt
or Supra or everything, Fender,.
There's no such thing as Marshall is the brand of the stars,
what a ridiculous accusation.


disclaimer:
(no hatred meant in this lite hearted banter)
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Re: Marshalls...

Postby CS70 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:57 pm

Argiletonne wrote:There's no such thing as Marshall is the brand of the stars,

Truth be told, there are some people who say they like them.. :)

https://marshall.com/marshall-amps/endorsers
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Re: Marshalls...

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:22 pm

EC used one in the Bluesbreakers so there can't be much wrong with them.....
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Re: Marshalls...

Postby SecretSam » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:42 am

Hendrix, Gallagher, Trower on the one hand.

Some geezer on the internet on the other.

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Re: Marshalls...

Postby ef37a » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:57 am

Sam Spoons wrote:EC used one in the Bluesbreakers so there can't be much wrong with them.....

That's the amp he spent years finding according to the documentary on recently.

Clapton was also said to have convinced recording engineers to mic his amp from several mtrs away. Said, " The ****g audience is out THERE not with their ****g ears stuck against the speaker!"

But, how does 'everyone' still do it these days? Mind you, Clapton was a bit loud.

Head-on-block time... Marshalls, the valve jobs, are really just variants of Fender designs and Fenders just built from the valve data sheets. So in practice the only real variable is the 'voicing' in the pre amp. You can distort a bit then EQ or EQ then distort. Then do either or both again and the frequencies at which you do so are infinitely variable.

People bang on about output transformers but in my, admittedly small, experience they all sound much the same. (some are however a bit feeble)

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Re: Marshalls...

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:03 am

For practical reasons I close mic my guitar cab in the studio but going from 1" from the grill to 4-6" back makes a huge difference to the sound.
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Re: Marshalls...

Postby CS70 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:02 pm

ef37a wrote:But, how does 'everyone' still do it these days? Mind you, Clapton was a bit loud.

This is quite nice:

https://www.loudersound.com/features/jo ... -the-beano
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Re: Marshalls...

Postby SecretSam » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:11 am

I am also coming to the conclusion that I am looking for a Marshall, and not a Vox.

A local company hand builds valve amps at reasonable prices. Would the spec below sound Marshally in your collective opinion?

"18 watts of cathode biased British tone
12AX7 (ECC83) preamp tubes
EL84 power tubes
6CA7 rectifier
Aluminium chassis with perspex faceplates.
one channel features plexie style tone controls with gain, treble, bass, mids and master volume"

The company is Mars Tube Audio, and they do clones of a few classic designs:

http://www.marsamps.co.za/product/18-watt/

They can provide them as kits, fully built amps, or just the fully built electrical bit - so you can design your own arty case. Which could be fun.

Shipping to the UK might cost a bit, but locally the fully built electrical bit costs about 10% less than a Chinese-built Origin 20 head.
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Re: Marshalls...

Postby ef37a » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:47 pm

I am ABSOLUTELY no kind of expert on Marshalls but I would say that THE marsh' tone is EL34s and fixed biased?

That kit is EL84s and cathode bias and that is a Vox AC15 line up. Can you get a schematic out of them before you buy? I seem to recall Marshalls used a bit of negative feedback? Vox did not.

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Re: Marshalls...

Postby SecretSam » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:05 pm

Thanks very much Dave. I'll see if they will part with one.
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Re: Marshalls...

Postby Sam Inglis » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:16 pm

I have an old Marshall PA20 head. Despite being EL84 rather than EL34 based it sounds pretty Marshall-y to me. And it's only 20W so perfect volume for rehearsals, pub gigs, etc. If those things ever happen again.
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Re: Marshalls...

Postby ef37a » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:02 pm

Sam Inglis wrote:I have an old Marshall PA20 head. Despite being EL84 rather than EL34 based it sounds pretty Marshall-y to me. And it's only 20W so perfect volume for rehearsals, pub gigs, etc. If those things ever happen again.

Hi Sam (there's always one!) Ok! As I said, I know nowt but schematics. "Sounds" are ephemeral things that defy scrutiny! But thinking about it, 20 watts* is a lot to get out of 84s in cathode bias and so it might be a fixed biased amp? Rare for 12W pentodes but would give that extra 'punch' and headroom.

*FYI there was a hospital headphone diss' amp that used EL81s, a TV line output valve that could stand a kV or more. I think that could put out around 25-30 watts from a 12W valve. Not in any way hi fidelity but I bet one would make a killer rock gitamp!

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