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Allan Holdsworth explains how it works

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Re: Allan Holdsworth explains how it works

Postby ManFromGlass » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:15 pm

Also don’t mix laxatives and sleeping pills.
:shocked:
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Re: Allan Holdsworth explains how it works

Postby blinddrew » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:19 pm

For once I am glad of our limited emoji set. :sick:
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Re: Allan Holdsworth explains how it works

Postby merlyn » Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:47 pm

Allan Holdsworth's music is probably best described as fusion, rather than jazz.

Jazz has roughly the same size of audience as opera, and going by the popularity of opera that isn't a lot. Fusion I would think is even less popular. Looking in from outside jazz or fusion it may be difficult to tell the two apart.

Jazz is a pretty wide term covering music as different as Ella Fitzgerald and John Coltrane. Records by Ella Fitzgerald don't have that many solos on them -- there are songs with a bit of improvisation. John Coltrane's music has a lot of solos, and they're long.

Jazz and fusion both feature improvisation, and that is where Allan Holdsworth excelled. He really did improvise, rather than stringing licks together. There are a few elements that would put Holdsworth's music into the fusion category and these are probably best picked up through the music, rather than from a definition of jazz or fusion.
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Re: Allan Holdsworth explains how it works

Postby MOF » Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:52 am

Don't confuse key changes with substitutions. That would just be messy.
Nothing to do with key changes, each player chooses their own key, if they do change key to match the other players that’s the cue for them to change too. :lol:
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Re: Allan Holdsworth explains how it works

Postby SecretSam » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:26 am

ManFromGlass wrote:Also don’t mix laxatives and sleeping pills.
:shocked:

That's the best single piece of advice ever written on the forum. Move over, Andy and Dave.
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Re: Allan Holdsworth explains how it works

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:08 am

Pop musicians play three chords to 3000 people, jazzers play 3000 chords to three people :D
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Re: Allan Holdsworth explains how it works

Postby Dynamic Mike » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:58 am

Sam Spoons wrote:Pop musicians play three chords to 3000 people, jazzers play 3000 chords to three people :D
Fergus plays the blues, in bars of 12 or less

Always loved that opening line.
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Re: Alan Holdsworth explains how it works

Postby merlyn » Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:21 pm

RichardT wrote:It might help guitarists, but it’s not a lot of use for keyboard players!

OK, so here's a translation for all instrumentalists. I'll present all the scales with a C root.

7 note scales

Scale 1 : C major 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1
Image

Scale 2 : C melodic minor 1 2 b3 4 5 6 7 1
Image

Scale 3 : C harmonic minor 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7 1Image

Scale 4 : C harmonic major 1 2 3 4 5 b6 7 1 (Allan presents the 4th mode)
Image
8 note scales

Scale 5 : C half step/whole step diminished 1 b2 b3 3 b5 5 6 b7 1
Image

Scale 6 : C bebop major 1 2 3 4 5 #5 6 7 1
Image

Scale 7 : C bebop mixolydian 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 7 1
Image

Scale 8 : C bebop dorian 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 7 1
Image

Scale 9 : C bebop melodic minor 1 2 b3 4 5 #5 6 7 1
Image
9 note scale

Scale 10 : Messiaen's third mode of limited transposition 1 2 b3 3 b5 5 b6 b7 7 1
Image
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Re: Allan Holdsworth explains how it works

Postby RichardT » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:02 pm

Wow, thanks for that!
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Re: Allan Holdsworth explains how it works

Postby PianoPerson » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:18 pm

Very cool; thanks!
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Re: Allan Holdsworth explains how it works

Postby SecretSam » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:37 pm

Very impressive Merlyn. You have earned your user name !
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Re: Allan Holdsworth explains how it works

Postby merlyn » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:40 pm

I've come up with a handy guide for telling jazz and fusion apart.

  • Is the guitarist playing a guitar with f-holes ? No -- maybe fusion.
  • Is the guitarist using disortion ? Yes -- probably fusion
  • Do the guitarist or keyboard player bend notes ? Yes -- probably fusion
  • Is the bass acoustic ? Yes -- probably jazz
  • Is the bass drum 20" or bigger ? Yes -- probably fusion
  • Do the chords change every two beats ? Yes -- most likely jazz
  • If you're in a different room and only have an impression of the music could it be mistaken for Rush ? Yes -- probably fusion
  • Mistaken for Frank Zappa ? Yes -- probably fusion
  • Mistaken for King Crimson ? Yes -- very probably fusion
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Re: Allan Holdsworth explains how it works

Postby blinddrew » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:52 pm

It's much easier than that! If the average hair length (performers or the audience member) is longer than the average beard length, then it's fusion, and vice versa. :)
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Re: Allan Holdsworth explains how it works

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:49 am

:D :D :D :D

Actually you're both wrong, the difference between jazz and fusion is whether you need ear plugs or not.
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Re: Allan Holdsworth explains how it works

Postby CS70 » Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:10 pm

The difference between jazz and fusion is between falling asleep and trying to, but the goddamn noise doesn't allow you to
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