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Where to place noise gate pedal

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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby DC-Choppah » Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:25 am

Dave B wrote:Which noise gate are you using?

Boss noise gates have 2 inputs and outputs. The idea is that your input into the pedal also acts as a key to the gate so that the gate is open when your guitar is giving the gate a signal. Rather than just passing the output straight to the amp, you then use its Send to go to the rest of your pedal board (at least the noisy, mono bits) and the resulting output from those are sent to the noise pedals return. Finally, the output goes to the amp.

Check out the 'advanced' bit halfway down the page : https://rolandcorp.com.au/blog/how-to-use-boss-ns-2-noise-suppressor-in-your-rig

This way, your noisy pedals are gated when the guitar is not actually playing. It's a neat system and if your pedal doesn't have it, I'd swap for one that does.

I think this the key feature I need. I need to use the guitar signal as the key to the gate. That way the key does not compete with the noise in the high gain patch.

Now that you showed me these kind of gates I found this one (TC Electronics Sentry Noise Gate):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hoTGyxbPto

That video describes my problem well. Although I don't play metal, the problem is the same.

They use a multiband gate and you can customize it for your guitar to make the release sound natural.

'Just download the tone print app onto your phone and play it through your guitar pickups'

Wait. What?!?


Anyone tried this?
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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby DC-Choppah » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:06 pm

I found this used for a good price and am waiting for it to arrive.

https://www.ehx.com/products/silencer

Has the key function of using the direct guitar signal as the trigger for the entire effects loop.

I like that. The TC Electronics one sounds too metal for me.


Thank you very much for the info guys!
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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby MOF » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:03 am

The compressor at the end of the patch is what is raising the noise floor when the strings are muted.
Well that compressor is acting as an AGC. A normal compressor squeezes the dynamic range and you add make up gain to bring it back to the volume level you require, the noise shouldn't come "rushing in", it might become more noticeable when the guitar signal is no longer there but it should stay at the same volume.
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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:05 am

If my understanding is correct, a compressor with make up gain will appear to raise the noise level in line with it's release time during silent parts of the program. When activate compressor is compressing the signal everything gets quieter including the noise*, when the player stops playing the release time governs how long it takes the noise to return to it's uncompressed, make up gain affected level.

* The comp only applies gain reduction when the signal is over the threshold but it applies that GR to the whole signal not just the part of it that is over the threshold.
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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby DC-Choppah » Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:05 pm

The knob is labeled 'sustain', but my understanding is this is actually ratio control of the compressor.

For long sustain, the 'sustain' knob is set high. There is no threshold control on these pedals, so the compressor is set to kick in at a low threshold. There is no release either, so the release is fixed.

So after you hit a string, and the sound gets quieter, the sound is still above the threshold, so the compressor keeps increasing the gain as it fades out. That gives the sustain.

The gain is just going up and up as the string decays. So it sounds like a constant level.

But when you release the string, the input should drop below the threshold of the gate and shut off.

The problem is when the noise in the channel triggers the threshold in the gate, then the gate never triggers. So you have to set the trigger higher, but then it interferes with the playing.


So the gate with the key should fix this. There is no noise in the key of the gate.
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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:44 pm

DC-Choppah wrote:The knob is labeled 'sustain', but my understanding is this is actually ratio control of the compressor.

For long sustain, the 'sustain' knob is set high. There is no threshold control on these pedals, so the compressor is set to kick in at a low threshold. There is no release either, so the release is fixed.

So after you hit a string, and the sound gets quieter, the sound is still above the threshold, so the compressor keeps increasing the gain as it fades out. That gives the sustain.

Or reduces the compression which is proportional to the level above the threshold (fixed or otherwise), the make up gain means the compressed signal is roughly as loud as the direct signal with the pedal bypassed.

The gain is just going up and up as the string decays. So it sounds like a constant level.

Or the compression is going down and down so the level stays more or less constant but the noise appears to increases as it is also being less compressed (make up gain)?

But when you release the string, the input should drop below the threshold of the gate and shut off.

Yes it should.

The problem is when the noise in the channel triggers the threshold in the gate, then the gate never triggers. So you have to set the trigger higher, but then it interferes with the playing.

the noise, when it passes through the compressor, is boosted by the make up gain so is louder than when the comp is bypassed.

So the gate with the key should fix this. There is no noise in the key of the gate.

Yes it should or a gate placed before the compressor would gate the noise before it reached the compressor to get boosted. The down side would be that when the wanted signal was low after the plucked string had decayed it would possibly gate that too. The side chain solution seems the best but might also suffer from that problem.

FWIW I'm still fiddling with the very aggressive default gate settings on my new Headrush Gigboard. I'll be looking to see if there is a similar side chain option there.
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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby DC-Choppah » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:30 am

I have the Electro-harmonix Silencer. Scratched my head for while, and tried a few different ways to do it.

In my case, the ART Powerplant preamp is being used in high gain mode, so I needed to put the preamp inside the gated effects loop.

I ended up with this. Sounds good and goes dead quiet (except for amp hum) in high gain mode.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pk4xTJ ... sp=sharing

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