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Where to place noise gate pedal

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Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby DC-Choppah » Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:59 am

For a singing, sustaining solo, where the notes go forever, and I can bend the strings long after I hit the note, and it keeps singing, love it...

I use a bunch of effects to get that sound, chorus, three different distortions, and a compressor with high sustain.

But when I release a note, there is this rush of noise that comes in, from all that gain and sustain, so I use a noise gate.

Ideally, the gate is set so that its sensitivity makes it activate the gate as soon as I mute the strings. A vert soft musical release and it goes dead quiet. As soon as I touch a note it releases the gate so fast that 100% of my pick attack is there. Well that is my ideal anyway.

Where would you guys put the noise gate in the chain to achieve this?!?


I'd like to try some more options. What I am doing now I am not happy with. I have it at the very end of the effects chain that is inside the effects loop of the preamp.

Problem is that in that position, what hits the pedal is so high that I have to set the sensitivity of the gate very very low and I don't have the sensitivity on the knob to get the right setting. Either no gate or too much gate.

So I figured time to move it. But where??


Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this.
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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby BillB » Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:14 am

DC-Choppah wrote:chorus, three different distortions, and a compressor with high sustain.

DC, I’m no expert, but just for clarity, is the above the order of the pedals you are using? It might also be helpful to say what they are, and what your noise gate is.
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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby al_diablo » Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:58 am

What type of gate do you use? Also what the other pedals are and the order would help.

But, it sounds like you might need a gate with a send and have a normal one.

I can recommend the MXR Noise Clamp. Basically, you plug your guitar (clean) into it, it has send/return loop where you run your noisy pedals, and an output.

There's actually nothing stopping you putting your whole chain including the amp front end 'inside' the pedal. But it has a neat function where you can set it so that bypassing the pedal also disables the send, so you can switch between clean/ completely ungated and high gain gated chain with only 1 switch.

I believe the Boss NS2 does the same trick
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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby Dave B » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:01 am

Which noise gate are you using?

Boss noise gates have 2 inputs and outputs. The idea is that your input into the pedal also acts as a key to the gate so that the gate is open when your guitar is giving the gate a signal. Rather than just passing the output straight to the amp, you then use its Send to go to the rest of your pedal board (at least the noisy, mono bits) and the resulting output from those are sent to the noise pedals return. Finally, the output goes to the amp.

Check out the 'advanced' bit halfway down the page : https://rolandcorp.com.au/blog/how-to-use-boss-ns-2-noise-suppressor-in-your-rig

This way, your noisy pedals are gated when the guitar is not actually playing. It's a neat system and if your pedal doesn't have it, I'd swap for one that does.
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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby ef37a » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:19 am

Ooo! That's clever Dave B.

I was going to suggest this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/264831614310?c ... NUQAvD_BwE

As an extra level control in front of the gate, cheaper than another pedal but maybe not AS good?

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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby John Pinchin » Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:59 pm

I like to place a gate later in the chain to cut any residual noise but before using a gate I'd double check you have done everything to reduce noise and interference - a decent power supply with isolated outputs etc. Gain pedals will magnify any noise in the system so the better you can get it, the less work a gate has to do. I've just been experimenting with getting high gain tones stacking a compressor and a couple of drives into the overdrive channel on my shiva and I can get pretty heavy but noise free without a gate.
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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby MOF » Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:55 pm

A gate by its very nature is going to be heard switching on and off.
Some kind of dynamic low pass filter would be less noticeable.
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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby DC-Choppah » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:53 pm

al_diablo wrote:What type of gate do you use? Also what the other pedals are and the order would help.

Here is the noise gate I use (Boss NF-1).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N-9rXO ... sp=sharing


Signal goes like this:

Guitar -> Preamp set to high gain channel (ART Power Plant)


Effects loop of Preamp

Send-> Dynacomp compressor -> Gain Chainger overdrive -> Electric Mistress chorus -> Maxon Distortion -> Pigtronics Philospher Tone compressor (sustain) -> Noise gate ->
rackmount lexicon effects (reverb and chorus and eq w/ mid range boost) ->

Return

Note that the Noise gate at the end of the noisy stuff, but in front of the Lexicon multieffects. I can set the Lexicon to bypass, and the issue with the noise gate is the same.


What I like about this (except the noise) is the long singing sustain. It interacts with the guitar.The chorus's makes it always changing - never a single tone. It has bite when you need it, can be smooth if you want. You can hear the pick on the string, but you can hammer on and off and just play without a pick too.
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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby DC-Choppah » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:09 pm

There is no 'noise' while I am playing. What I mean is that when playing a solo line, the sound is good. There is no huge background noise level.

But when muting the guitar, the noise comes rushing in. I assume that what is happening is the compressors are increasing the gain after muting the strings, and the noise goes way up.

So what I am hearing in my head, is that if I muted the strings, if there was some way for the compressor to reduce their gain, instead on increasing it at that time, then the noise would go away?

Since the compressors raise the gain instead, right at that time, then the noise gate needs to kick in for that noise signal level and open the gate.

But if that noise is sooo high, then it won't trigger the gate. This is making the 'Sens' knob of the gate very fussy.
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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby al_diablo » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:07 pm

That is quite a complex chain, not surprising it is noisy.

Routing wise I'd have thought putting the MXR before the preamp would be better than in the loop. I think the comment above about minimising noise elsewhere, particularly from power is a good one, if you haven't considered it already.

But yes, I think what you need is either the MXR or the Boss that Dave B mentioned.

You could put it in the preamp loop so it would go preamp send > gate input. Gate send > drive / chorus / compression / drive > gate return. Gate output > lexicon > preamp return.

That way most of the noisy stuff will be 'inside' the gate, which will kill the output unless there is sound coming in. So unless you are playing it is attenuated. If it is STILL noisy you could plug the guitar input into the gate, send the entire chain including preamp through it, and the return to your reverb etc.

I must say though, i'd be shocked if you couldn't achieve the same effect without a couple of those pedals, probably 1 compressor and 1 drive, maybe even 2.

Also, presumably you have gone through each stage and made sure the output levels are all ok?
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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby DC-Choppah » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:26 pm

al_diablo wrote:Routing wise I'd have thought putting the MXR before the preamp would be better than in the loop.

You know, now that you mention that, the MXR Dynacomp is in front of the preamp. The guitar goes directly to the dynamic comp, then into the preamp.

I remember doing that a while ago, but forget about these details. That makes a big difference to get the dynacomp do its thing properly.
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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby DC-Choppah » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:36 pm

Dave B wrote:Check out the 'advanced' bit halfway down the page : https://rolandcorp.com.au/blog/how-to-use-boss-ns-2-noise-suppressor-in-your-rig

OK, This is very helpful. I see. So the guitar will be the 'key' for the noise gate to trigger. Right? That makes sense and solve my problem I think.

But what happens when you press the pedal? It switches from the in/out to the send/return path. Is that right?

So the stuff in the send/return loop doesn't get used when the pedal is off? Is that right? It's one path or the other?


I think I would rather just have a key input form my guitar, and have the pedal either gate or not gate. But always use the same signal path and always use the key from the guitar.
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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby MOF » Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:47 pm

There is no 'noise' while I am playing. What I mean is that when playing a solo line, the sound is good. There is no huge background noise level.

But when muting the guitar, the noise comes rushing in.

The Dynacomp is probably an AGC (Automatic Gain Control) type of compressor, you need a regular compressor, the “Dyna” suggests AGC.
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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby DC-Choppah » Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:36 am

This is helping me understand the noise gate pedal with send/receive.

Really nice video on this topic. (That Pedal Show)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAllMFGdQTI
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Re: Where to place noise gate pedal

Postby DC-Choppah » Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:45 am

MOF wrote:
There is no 'noise' while I am playing. What I mean is that when playing a solo line, the sound is good. There is no huge background noise level.

But when muting the guitar, the noise comes rushing in.

The Dynacomp is probably an AGC (Automatic Gain Control) type of compressor, you need a regular compressor, the “Dyna” suggests AGC.

I tried with and without dynacomp. The dynacomp does not change the noise level hitting the gate, so the problem is unchanged. The dynacomp changes the sound of the attack of the note. Makes it more like a lap steel guitar sound. Its just part of the sound quality of the patch.

The compressor at the end of the patch is what is raising the noise floor when the strings are muted.
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