Hi all, reporting back as promised...

A few observations:

Any kind of drive pedal into the front of the amp can increase volume when the amp is low, but with amp on full volume it only increases saturation and what i want to call the "thickness" of the sound.

The MXR micro amp in the loop boosts volume at any level and adds more dirt the higher you turn it up. I still haven't dared to turn it up full but there is a good 1/3 of a turn left at ear splitting volume. Absolute beauty of a power amp in this thing.

5 watts into the 4x12 is bigger, louder, and chuggier than into 1x10. I A/B'd them at the same volume level and the 4x12 is also cleaner and sweeter. I guess just moving more air gives more definition.

Signal chain is telecaster (p90 in the neck) > donner blues drive > blackstar ht5 > mxr micro amp in effects loop > inbuilt 1x10 or external 4x12

2 footswitchable amp channels + 2 pedals gives 8 tones/volume levels from glass clean to drowning in feedback and noise. The 4x12 driven hard takes all of it and will easily fill a room, and from subjective A/B tests should work great with drums in our practise space.

Possibly the most important point though, is that i communicated with the drummer and we figured out how to work better together.

I'm keeping this setup, because it's so much better now! I may not need all the volume but it's nice to have some headroom.

So I'm tentatively saying problem solved. About 95% confident, but experiment will confirm post lockdown (whenever this may be).

Thank you all so much! I've taken pretty much all of your input and got a better understanding of my gear, a better band and better guitar tone from it. I hope you're all making sweet music out there folks.

Glenn

:thumbup:

Useful, informative feedback. Thanks.

Yes, very nice to get feedback like that.
Maybe a recording of a band practice session sometime?

Dave.

maccagakka wrote:5 watts into the 4x12 is bigger, louder, and chuggier than into 1x10. I A/B'd them at the same volume level and the 4x12 is also cleaner and sweeter. I guess just moving more air gives more definition.

Just an additional piece of info here.. a 4x12 will move more air than a 1x12 with the same speakers, which makes it louder.. but a 4x12 is not just a 4x12! :-D A lot depends on the efficiency of the speakers that are mounted inside.

Very efficient speakers (in technical terms, with higher sensitivity) will waste less power - resulting in more air moved for the same signal and thus more volume.

Since there can be differences well in the order of 6dB and more between different speakers' sensitivity rating, which speakers you have in the cabinet makes a huge difference.

The loudness differences between single and multiple speakers is a not that simple a matter.

The 4 motors in a 4x12 each receive only one quarter the power that a single drive unit would get but the summed output of the four would be the same SPL.

But, 4 discrete 12" speakers are not the same as one, they will be more directional and there will be a 'gain' in sound output in the forward direction. The bigger cab frontal area helps as well. This is the principle behind 'line source' speakers, their size in the vertical direction causes the sound radiation to be confined into the horizontal plane and what is lost on the vertical is gained in the horizontal. The 4X12 would be even louder if the drivers were stacked vertically!

Multiple speakers also have a higher absolute SPL limit than a single of the same rating because Thermal Compression. The voice coill gets hot, its resistance increases* and thus drive current and hence power goes down. A set of V30s hit with 100W are only handling 25W each and are probably only close to their TC point.

*This is the main reason why valve power stages ARE louder than a same rated solid state stage. Valves can deliver the extra volts and hence current into the hot VCs whereas Silicon just clips.

Dave.

+1 here for more sensitive speakers- I changed the stock speaker in my Laney VC15 from the Jensen P10R to an Eminence Ragin Cajun. It turned a the VC15 into a monster. The stock speaker sounded great but with a loud stage II would reach the limit of the amp and speaker and then I only got more saturation and less definition if I wanted a boost in level. Now I can do loud cleanish tones with no dramas with enough headroom for my needs. Word of warning - look at the dimensions of your desired speaker and if it will fit in the cab if it's going in a combo amp. The magnet on the Ragin Cajun is massive and is only just fits and is rather uncomfortably close to the el84 valves- although it's all been alright for the last 12 years :-)

Murray B wrote:+1 here for more sensitive speakers- I changed the stock speaker in my Laney VC15 from the Jensen P10R to an Eminence Ragin Cajun. It turned a the VC15 into a monster. The stock speaker sounded great but with a loud stage II would reach the limit of the amp and speaker and then I only got more saturation and less definition if I wanted a boost in level. Now I can do loud cleanish tones with no dramas with enough headroom for my needs. Word of warning - look at the dimensions of your desired speaker and if it will fit in the cab if it's going in a combo amp. The magnet on the Ragin Cajun is massive and is only just fits and is rather uncomfortably close to the el84 valves- although it's all been alright for the last 12 years :-)

Good point about magnet clearance. I don't know the internal layout of the Mkll but the early model was a bit tight iic and the fitted G10-N40 has quite a shallow magnet.

If Eminence are a 'properly professional' company they will have engineering drawings to download. I would make a cardboard mockup.

Dave.